From:	uk.rec.walking@list.deja.com
Sent:	01 July 1999 12:56
To:	kal1@lineone.net
Subject:	Daily Digest: uk.rec.walking 1/1


Subject: Terra Nova Trisar
From: Phil Cook (phil@p-t-cook.nukeallspamfreeserve.co.uk)

Last weekend I happened on the Field & Trek tent show at the
Paddington Recreation ground. I had a good look at the new convertible
Trisar and was hoping that I could just add the 4th pole to my old
model to make it more stable when the wind is from the rear. Alas this
isn't possible as they have fiddled with the geometry a bit and the
new tent is wider than the old one and the extra pole adds quite a bit
of volume so the flysheet would no longer fit if I tried to use it
with my tent. However, I had a chat with the Rep from Terra Nova and
he said that they have a solution to the problem. What they do is to
add 4 extra guy points to the tent. Two front and two at the back
along the line of the long poles. This helps to support the back of
the tent where the long poles are otherwise prone to flex alarmingly
in  high(ish) winds. Normally they charge 10 quid to fix a new guy
point but will do all four for 20.

Terra Nova e-mail is tents@terra-nova.co.uk
Their website is http://www.terra-nova.co.uk

Phil Cook. London, England. No connection with Terra Nova apart from
owning one of their tents!
Return address has anti-spam: delete the obvious to e-mail me.






Subject: Re: Recommended Walk - Lakes
From: Matti Lamprhey (matti@polka.bikini)

Kevin Harrison <kevin.harrison9@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:7l23g7$dq9$2@nclient1-gui.server.virgin.net...
> Did a good two day walk last weekend, Keswick to Langdale:
<snip>
> Woke the next morning to thick mist.  Found the path again and made the
long
> slog up to High Raise.  From here it should have been a quick journey to
the
> Langdale Pikes, but in the poor visibility I took a bad bearing and ended
up
> somewhere on Martcrag Moor.  Soon solved by walking south until the drop
to
> Langdale.  Very tempted to climb down one of the gills from Mart Crag but
> common sense prevailed.  Common sense can be a cruel bugger 'cause it
meant
> climbing back up Pike o Stickle just to descend the long tourist path down
> to the New Dungeon Ghyll.

Ha!  Complain to Ordnance Survey for omitting the excellent zigzag path down
from Martcrag Moor by Troughton Beck.  It's been discussed here recently in
fact.  AW recommended it.

Matti






Subject: Re: St Cuthbert Way
From: Ian Graham (iangraham@cableinet.co.uk)

hounddog888@my-deja.com wrote:
> 
> My girlfriend and I did St Cuthberts Way last year and thoroughly enjoyed it.
> 
> Although there are companies which offer the walk as a package, you'll save a
> fortune booking the B&Bs yourself.
> 
> Get accommodation info from Melrose Tourist Info Ctr.
> 
> Sadly the route was interrupted by a fallen bridge at Jedburgh Foot.
> 
> I don't know if it's been repaired yet.
> 
> HoundDog
> 
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
You will be glad to know that the new bridge across the Teviot is now in
use

Ian Graham
Glenrothes




Subject: Re: Halls Fell Ridge, Blencathra
From: Ian Phillpott (106445.571@compuserve.com)

I would generally agree. Halls Fell was our first ridge scramble 
and the problem of picking out the best route is certainly a 
challenge.
One piece of advice though. Stay off the grass! When we went up, 
a certain member of our group wasn't too keen on rock and so 
decided to take to the grass on the slopes - bad news!
After some cajoling and help we got her back onto the ridge and 
finally made the top.
A grand day out!?


-- 
Ian P




Subject: Re: Good Read?
From: Tony Simpkins (tony@simpkins57.freeserve.co.uk)

Kevin,
My web site might be of interest.
http://www.simpkins57.freeserve.co.uk/mountain_lakes_books/welcome.html
Regards,
Tony Simpkins
Kevin Harrison wrote in message
<7l23g5$dq9$1@nclient1-gui.server.virgin.net>...
>Anyone got any good book recommendations - subject areas of mountaineering,







Subject: Re: Mull ferries
From:  (john.a.usrgrp@cwc.net)

Paul,

The advice on Lochaline is good.

Take the A82 south from Fort William, to the Coran Ferry; run
by Highland Council.  A  short crossing takes you over to Ardgour.  Then a longish
drive in a very remote area(from what I remember, about one and a half hours, to 
Lochaline.  The ferry is abour half an hour, over to Fishnish.
But, check the travel times with CalMac, this ferry is, I believe not
bookable and although a regular daytime service, does not go
on much after early evening.  

John,
Warwickshire.

Paul Simonite <stationhouse@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>Hi,>
>Can anyone recommend a good route to Mull from the north (Fort Bill) 
>please?  We shall be travelling next Friday and looking for a ferry 
>about mid afternoon out and return Sat PM or Sun AM.
>
>All advice gratefully received.
>

>-- 
>Cheers,
>
>Paul (Compo) Simonite, Caithness
>





Subject: Re: Good Read?
From: Mike Ewart (mewart6611@aol.comboots)

In article <7l23g5$dq9$1@nclient1-gui.server.virgin.net>, "Kevin Harrison"
<kevin.harrison9@virgin.net> writes:

>Anyone got any good book recommendations - subject areas of mountaineering,
>exploration, etc.. 

I found "Summit Fever" by Andrew Greig a really interesting take on expedition
life. As a "non-climber" (although anyone who can help put up a new Grade III
winter route is a better climber than me!), his view of what makes the
expedition types tick and how the interpersonal  tensions work is a real change
from the usual aces' eye view you get in expedition literature.


Mike
(Remove boots before emailing!)




Subject: B&Bs in Seathwaite?
From: Chris Newton (blueheron@ezsf.net)

Does anyone know of any cheap b&b's around Seathwaite in the Duddon valley?
Alternately, does the Newfield Inn have rooms?

Regards,

Chris from California






Subject: Re: Magellan GPS Systems in UK
From: W.D.Grey (bill@graigroad.demon.co.uk)

In article <930052525.24871.1.nnrp-10.c1ed0e5f@news.demon.co.uk>, Simon
Caldwell <simonATgetrealsystemsDOTcom@?.?> writes
>
>However thick the fog, one can usually see enough of the shape of the land

Fascinating!

On one occasion when ascending the "Motorway" up  Pen-Y-Fan, I *heard*
the transistor radio of the Park path repairers before  *seeing* them,
and they were only about 30 yards ahead! As for seeing the
land.............
-- 
Bill
http://www.graigroad.demon.co.uk




Subject: Thanks everyone!
From: Websurfer (websurfer@itnet.com)

I decided to use Ambleside as my base.
And I would like to hear any suggested walks in the area.
Thanks again!

Websurfer wrote:

> I will spend three days in Lake District.
> I like walking or short-distance (< 5 hours) hiking.
> Ambleside YHA only has dorm bed available but Windermere Backpackers
> has single room available.
> Is it better to stay in Ambleside or Windermere for walking/hiking
> activities?
> And has anyone stayed in Ambleside YHA and Windermere Backpackers?





Subject: Re: Web Services
From: EARTHDWELLER (earthdweller@bigwig.net)

Gradient International Technology Inc. <gradient@globalserve.net> wrote in
message news:7l3p9i$rv5$4@whisper.globalserve.net...
[...]
> Web Site Development
> eBusiness catalogues
> Database driven web sites
> From only 9.95 per hour

I believe it! The website this points to is quite beyond belief. It has been
generated using some utility provided by EC Korea (a commerce site copyright
of the Korea Trade Network), the text link back to the company's home page
redisplays the same one page of information, the graphic link to the home
page is inactive.... The other products and services which we are invited to
the page to find out about are printer cartridges...in fact they are the
ONLY products on the site, and no mention of the services...

I don't normally comment about poor commercial sites but I just couldn't
believe what I was seeing! I think this advert could be an all-time classic
of how not to do it... Copy sent to my favourite magazine!

EARTHDWELLER

Email andrew_burley@bigwig.net
Personal web-site EARTHDWELLER - http://www.bigwig.net/earthdweller
Community web-site MELTHAM ON THE WEB - http://welcome.to/meltham







Subject: Re: Good Read?
From: Roger Chapman (r.chapman@zetnet.co.uk)

The message <7l23g5$dq9$1@nclient1-gui.server.virgin.net>
  from  "Kevin Harrison" <kevin.harrison9@virgin.net> contains these words: 

> I read a review a couple of months ago on a book about an early Victorian
> arctic(?) explorer, but can't remember the title. This might sound daft but
> I think the cover had a picture of a walrus in a top hat.  Anyone know the
> title?

Haven't a clue but if it is about Sir John Franklin I too would be 
interested in any details.

Roger






Subject: Re: Convert OS Grid Reference into latitude/longitude references
From: Paul Saunders (gwrtheryn@my-deja.com)


>Paul,

>The forumla isn't pleasant! But, if you wish to know more about it
>then try

>http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/people/harry.whitfield/home.formal/mercator.htm
l

>Jim

Thanks for that, It is pretty horrific isn't it?  I suppose I was a bit
optomistic to think about putting it in a spreadsheet cell...

Sorry I took so long to reply but for some reason your two posts didn't
appear in Deja News which is the only place I can post from at the
moment.  I found your messages from another news server which I can't
post to.

On Sun, 20 Jun 1999 19:22:58 GMT, Paul Saunders
<gwrtheryn@my-deja.com> wrote:

>In article <376d279b.481453@news.uunet.be>,
>  look.at.my.address@bottom.of.posting wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am looking for a utility that allows me to convert Ordnance Survey
>> grid references into Latitude/Longitude references (decimal or
>> degrees/minutes/seconds), and vice/versa.
>>  I have the coordiantes of the UK youth hostels as OS Grid
References,
>> and would like to add them as pushpins into my route planning
program,
>> which only accepts latitude/longitude references.
>>
>> Bert Geenen
>>
>> bert dot geenen at poboxes dot com
>>
>
>Yes I want that too, has anyone got the formula?



>Jim Willsher (jim@willsher.sol.co.uk)

>Homepages at http://www.sol.co.uk/w/willsher

--
Paul
Wilderness Wales
http://website.lineone.net/~wilderness/


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.




Subject: walks around Sturdminster Newton
From: Tom Whittaker (tom@whittakert.freeserve.co.uk)

Know any good, fairly short (say 5-10 miles) walks around this area?






Subject: ME Annurpurna Down JKT
From: James Grove (james@iceworld.freeserve.co.uk)


	For Sale:

	Mountain Equipment Annurpurna Dryloft Down Jacket. 

Brand New Never Used
Colour: Black
Size: Large

Price 110.


-- 
James Grove
jgrove@ndirect.co.uk
Voice: 0121 602 1901
Fax: 0121 602 0857




Subject: G.P.S.
From: David Williams (willcctv@primex.co.uk)

Help! can any one please recommend a web site for downloading software for
the GPS12, preferably one where you can scan the maps which cover your
route. I found a demo version  called oziexplorer, but the only way to get
the full version was to give credit card details on the net which i did not
want to do because i didnt think it was a secure site.






Subject: Re: Bivi bags...
From: Alex (alex@clockwork.freeserve.co.uk)

Hi,


Jon Earnshaw wrote in message <7klioq$qp8$1@starburst.uk.insnet.net>...
>Hi Giles


...snip...

>I also found bivibags wonderful when walking alone in the British Hills
>allowing you to spend the night in beautiful remote spots.
>
>They are more convenient than a tent to carry as well!!
>
>Personally, I'd go for it!
>Regards
>
>Jon
>
What are they like in the rain ?  I have been considering a Bivi bag
and the thing that's been making me hold back is the thought of
climbing into one when it's raining stair-rods :-)

Alex








Subject: Re: G.P.S.
From: Alan White (alan.lesley@dial.pipex.com)

On Sun, 27 Jun 1999 11:28:34 -0700, "David Williams"
<willcctv@primex.co.uk> wrote:

>Help! can any one please recommend a web site for downloading software for
>the GPS12, preferably one where you can scan the maps which cover your
>route. I found a demo version  called oziexplorer, but the only way to get
>the full version was to give credit card details on the net which i did not
>want to do because i didnt think it was a secure site.
>

Get OziExplorer. It's the best.

-- 
Alan White,
in England's Lake District.
http://ds.dial.pipex.com/alan.lesley/




Subject: Re: Sprayway trouble
From: Mark Beecham (mark.beecham@tesco.net)

On Sun, 27 Jun 1999 12:37:38 +0100, "Paul"
<paulbmurphy@(nospam)homeletters.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

>
>To the point; is anyone able to recommend a suitable spray, lotion or potion
>that will successfully re-proof and rejuvenate my ailing coat? I know gortex
>products come with some kind of factory coating - does Mr Gore sell it to
>the public?

Unfortunately, Goretex is not a "coated" fabric - it incorporates a
membrane with microscopic holes to let water vapour out. 
Having said that, if it's leaking, I don't see that a treatment of
somekind [Nikwax or other] would do any harm...




Subject: Re: Parking for munros
From: The Ferret (ferret@chateauferret.demon.co.uk)

On Tue, 22 Jun 1999 20:34:02 GMT, adrian.tupper@zetnet.co.uk (Adrian
Tupper) wrote:

>We're speaking the same language, I can see.
>
>Of course Victoria Bridge is a "must" so that the Black Mount range of
>Munros can be climbed in one day.
>
>How about Br. Orchy - Victoria Bridge - Kings House - Altnafeadh -
>"Meeting of Three Waters" - Clachaig - Glencoe Village - Kinlochleven?

	It would have been highly useful yesterday, doing the Wee
Buachaille starting in Glencoe and ending at the Kingshouse. Walking
through Glen Coe involves, apart from about a mile and a half, walking
along the A82; and people passing you less than a foot away whilst
overtaking at 50 mph and towing a caravan does not inspire confidence
in one's safety... 

	Of course the Citylink buses pass this way but won't stop in the
glen between Kingshouse and the visitor centre.

==========                                             Martin Bucknall
The Ferret                                          Stirling, Scotland
==========                            ferret@chateauferret.demon.co.uk
             * Si tacuisses, professus mansisses *




Subject: Re: Parking for munros
From: The Ferret (ferret@chateauferret.demon.co.uk)

On Tue, 22 Jun 1999 23:12:53 +0100, "BurtonBooks"
<burtonbooks@tesco.net> wrote:

>>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>>Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
>If it's privacy you want, then surely a Munro is one of the last places to
>go?

	Not if the weather's doing what it was doing on Rannoch Moor this
morning :-)

==========                                             Martin Bucknall
The Ferret                                          Stirling, Scotland
==========                            ferret@chateauferret.demon.co.uk
             * Si tacuisses, professus mansisses *




Subject: Re: South Downs Way - accomodation
From: Alex (alex@clockwork.freeserve.co.uk)


Danny Thomas wrote in message <7kqh6k$ndu$1@taliesin.netcom.net.uk>...
>Dick Endecott wrote in message ...
>>In article <7kfoeb$f0g$1@gxsn.com>, Strider <sjmorr@globalnet.co.uk>
>>writes
>>>> I am looking for a list of accomodation along the SDW
>>>> We want to walk the SDW in august
>>
>>Lewis, about 12 miles North of Brighton is a good place to stay.
>
><snip>
>
>That's Lewes!
>


Spelt Lewes, pronounced lewis :-)

Alex







Subject: Re: West Highland Way
From: Alex (alex@clockwork.freeserve.co.uk)

>> What was that suggestion we had a year or two back that "Avon Skin so
Soft"
>> or something similar was effective against midges. Did anyone ever try
it?
>>
>Heard that as well. The active ingredient is allegedly Oil of Citronella
>so presumably any other preparation containing it might be just as
>effective.


Hi,

I walked the WHW at the end of May - the midges at Kinlochleven
were dire indeed !  Citronella was absolutely useless for me.  I bought
a product called "Shoo" (may have been deet base) which half-worked.

I don't think there's a real cure apart from getting under cover.   Take at
least one long-sleeved shirt.

Alex







Subject: Re: "OS Type" Maps in France
From: Alex (alex@clockwork.freeserve.co.uk)

>Good old Stanfords in London is always worth a morning's browsing.
>
>.... Ken


Even on a Sunday ?

Alex







Subject: Givet In France
From:  (peter.godfrey@nospamvirgin.net)

My wife and I are of to Givet in Northern France nexy week.

Does anyone know what the walking is like in the area please



----

Peter Godfrey
Webmaster
Essex Intermediate Football League Web Site
http://freespace.virgin.net/peter.godfrey/eifl.htm
e-mail:- eifl.mail@virgin.net




Subject: Re: G.P.S.
From: Dicky (corbettr@dircon.co.uk)

It tells you where you are.

Richard Corbett

"Zeus Computer Graphi" <zeus@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote in message
news:FDzHs9.21o@cix.compulink.co.uk...
> > Get OziExplorer. It's the best.
>
> I have just brought a GPS which will connect to a PC
> what does the software on the PC do?
>
> Mark






Subject: Re: Magellan GPS Systems in UK
From: Doug Antill (nospam@winning.demon.co.uk)

In article <ijZ4sCA8C5b3Ewq7@auchnarrow.demon.co.uk>, Chris Townsend
<Chris@auchnarrow.demon.co.uk> writes
>In article <7kmlbe$q04$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Paul Saunders <gwrtheryn@my-
>deja.com> writes
>>
>>I get the impression you've never actually used one.  I tried one for
>>the first time last week and even though the weather was clear we gave
>>it a good testing.  After a walk of a couple of miles it brought us to
>>within ten yards of the gate we were aiming for.  Try doing that with a
>>compass.
>
>Not difficult. You can travel miles across featureless terrain in thick
>mist or a white-out on a compass bearing and arrive just where you want
>to be. 
Actually, Going back to when I was in the Green Machine the most
difficult terrain of all was heavy woodland or forests. Impossible to
keep a straight line and no reference features to orientate a map.
>>
>>According to Mountaincraft and Leadership, the expected error when
>>following a compass bearing is +/- 2 degrees.  Not much over short
>>distances but can build up into a considerable error over long
>>distances. 
Yes, provided it is physically possible, back to the woods example.
>
>True but there are few places where you can walk long distances on a
>single bearing because of the nature of the terrain. If you do have to,
>as I have on snow covered plateaux in Norway and Greenland and other
>places, it is possible but great care is needed. Mostly though compass
>bearings are for relatively short distances as are GPS directions.
GPS bearings work over any distance. I've just crewed a boat over the
Bay of Biscay. Distance to next waypoint was 270 miles.
>Neither a compass or a GPS can tell you what the terrain is like between
>two points. You need a map for that. If there's a cliff in the way a
>compass or GPS will point you over it. 
Ah for that you need an integrated chart plotter. Now that should start
a whole new arguement ;-)
>
>> A GPS on the other hand always points to where you want to
>>go, if you veer off course the arrow changes direction to compensate, a
>>compass doesn't do that.
>
>Unfortunately it doesn't always do this. An exercise I tried was to take
>a GPS reading on a summit, walk a kilometre or so away then ask it to
>guide me back. I did this several times from different points. Sometimes
>when I reached the summit the GPS told me I had several hundred metres
>to go, at other times tens of metres. A few times it said I had reached
>the summit before I had. A GPS will get you close enough to a fixed
>point that you should be able to find it easily but that's all.
The owners of the satelites, The American D of D have degraded the
signal for civilians with Selective Availability. SA is a random error
which can be overcome by the use of a differential GPS system which will
give accuracy of around 5 metres.
>
>>
>>Besides, in order to take an accurate compass bearing you first need to
>>know exactly where you are.  Fine if you do, useless if you don't,
>>which can easily happen in featureless terrain, or night/fog/blizzard
>>etc.  And fiddling about with a map and compass in the middle of a
>>blizzard isn't exactly easy either, whereas if you have a pre-plotted
>>waypoint on a GPS...
>
>Pre-plotted compass bearings can be useful too. I've used map and
>compass frequently in blizzards and dense mist and find them as quick to
>use as a GPS. In fact I've found the GPS most useful as a back-up to
>confirm where I am. 
>>
>>Incidentally, you don't need a map if you have a GPS.  I did a walk
>>once with a guy who owned a GPS.  He later repeated the same walk
>>without a map using the waypoints he'd set the first time around. 
>
>I've done a there and back again walk with just a GPS, plotting the
>waypoints to my destination then following them back. It's an
>interesting exercise but not one I'd choose to repeat. A good map gives
>detailed information about terrain that is very useful in poor
>visibility and interesting at any time. 
>
>>In spite of arguing for them though, a GPS is an electronic device
>>which could cease to function in cold or wet conditions, or if the
>>batteries run out.  It's still a new technology and therefore I'm not
>>going to trust them fully until they're proven to be reliable, but the
>>day will come when people who use a compass will be looked at in the
>>same light as those who take photos in black and white
>
>and what light is that? B&W photography has always been regarded as an
>art form and in the last few years has had a big renaissance. The
>technology involved is just as sophisticated as for colour photography.
>The future in photography, whether B&W or colour, is probably digital,
>once the quality is as good as film.
>
>>, or listen to
>>the radio instead of watching TV
>
>More people listen to the radio than watch TV.
>>
>>Open your mind to the future, tradition works, but technology is cool.
>
>Technology in the form of GPS may be cool but is it useful or necessary?
>I've played with several GPS receivers over the last few years (for test
>purposes) and whilst they can help navigation in certain circumstances I
>haven't actually bought one. Some places I've been, such as Greenland
>where the maps are 1:250,000 with 100 metre contour lines and the
>terrain can be very featureless, a GPS would have been useful though we
>managed with map and compass. In the UK it's a nice toy but not
>essential. A 10 compass and a map is all that is needed. If you want to
>use a GPS fine but newcomers to walking shouldn't think they have to buy
>one. 
>
>Chris Townsend. 
>
>Web: www.auchnarrow.demon.co.uk
>     www.redstart.net/Chris_Townsend/index.html

-- 
Regards
Doug




Subject: Re: G.P.S.
From: Zeus Computer Graphi (zeus@cix.compulink.co.uk)

> It tells you where you are.
That's what the GPS does, I suspect OziExplorer does something else 

Mark








Subject: Re: Good Read?
From: John Goldfine (johngoldfine@acadia.net)

Vilhjalmur (guessing) Steffansson (guessing again) wrote some wonderful
books on Arctic exploration, well worth looking up if you can sort out the
spelling....
Kevin Harrison wrote in message
<7l23g5$dq9$1@nclient1-gui.server.virgin.net>...
>Anyone got any good book recommendations - subject areas of mountaineering,
>exploration, etc..   Recently read books such as; The White Spider,
>Annapurna, all of Joe Simpson's, K2 The Savage Mountain, Into Thin Air,
>Eiger Dreams   - and now I'm hooked.
>
>I read a review a couple of months ago on a book about an early Victorian
>arctic(?) explorer, but can't remember the title. This might sound daft but
>I think the cover had a picture of a walrus in a top hat.  Anyone know the
>title?
>
>Kevin
>
>






Subject: Re: Walking in Czech & Slovak Republic - suggestions please!
From: Peter Robins (poster@bibloset.demon.co.uk)

In <QPCHrGAXw+b3Ewew@bottlenose.demon.co.uk>, Julie Odell <julie@bottlenose.demon.co.uk> writes:

>We are thinking of going to the Czech and Slovak Republic in September
>this year and would be interested in any information that anyone has got
>about this country.

I walked from Prague south to the German border last September, and also
from Vienna over the border to Bratislava; and then spent some time 
tootling around on trains.

>We would mainly like to do some hiking/walking possibly in The High
>Tatras (or anywhere else that is recommendable!) as well as spending a
>few days exploring Prague 
>
>Any info about accommodation, public transport and the best ways of
>getting around, recent prices of things etc would be much appreciated!

You should be ok for accommodation in popular areas like the Tatras,
but off the beaten track it can be a problem, as most places are not
set up (yet) for travellers, especially not on foot. The Czech Touring
Club 1:50,000 maps are excellent, but don't rely too much on the
accommodation places shown on them, as they are often out-of-date
or closed.

The exchange rate is _very_ favourable for us (and even more so since
I was there), and things are very cheap, including public transport.
e.g. a meal with beer in a pub around a pound or so.
Trains are quite fun - as long as you don't need to get anywhere fast.
Express coaches are faster. Timetables for both (and fares for trains) 
are available on the web, but you'll need a font that can read the
accented characters.

There's some further details on my webpages
http://www.bibloset.demon.co.uk/LDWA/CZ.htm and etc




Subject: Re: Bivi bags...
From: Simon Elliott (sce@wearside1.demon.co.uk)

In article <7l520h$64a$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>, Alex <alex@clockwork.free
serve.co.uk> writes
>What are they like in the rain ?  I have been considering a Bivi bag
>and the thing that's been making me hold back is the thought of
>climbing into one when it's raining stair-rods :-)
>
>Alex
>
Pretty basic! Try and imagine setting up your bivvy bag, sleeping mat
and sleeping bag, then taking off your wet outer gear and climbing in.
All in the pouring rain.....
-- 
Simon Elliott




Subject: Re: Parking for munros
From: Martin Richardson (martinr@thequiff.demon.co.uk)

In article <376FB176.27F00425@stud.man.ac.uk>, Anthony Dyer <anthony.j.d
yer@stud.man.ac.uk> writes
>> Now, a shuttle from Kings House to Clachaig...
>
>You could also include Bridge of Orchy Hotel for that proposed shuttle
>then that would be ace.
>
Er .. have you not heard of hitch hiking?

Welcome to the (~uiff Woodsave  

Martin Richardson               martinr@thequiff.demon.co.uk







Subject: Re: Parking for munros
From: Martin Richardson (martinr@thequiff.demon.co.uk)

In article <7kjrpa$qqe$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Paul Saunders <gwrtheryn@my-
deja.com> writes
>In article <1999062017125876241@zetnet.co.uk>,
>  Leonard Trim <leonard.trim@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> why settle for a car park. Let's have cafes, toilets, rest rooms.
>> Hell why not throw in the odd supermarket or two!
>
>While you're at it, can we have a camp site and a pub, and maybe a shop
>selling maps and various bits of outdoor kit as well?
>
>--
And I'd want a CD shop so I can browse for relevant songs :-8

Oh, and a bank - so I could get some money.

And then some houses, a school, a hospital, a police station - and all
the other things you can get in Sim City.

Welcome to the (~uiff Woodsave  

Martin Richardson               martinr@thequiff.demon.co.uk







Subject: Trekking pole found on Beinn a Bhuird
From: Yogi Bear (yogi@jellystone.com)

I found a 3-stage trekking pole near the corrie rim just south of the North
Top of Beinn a Bhuird on Thursday 24 June.  It was full of water so had
presumably been up there for at least a few days, but it was not at all
corroded. In fact it looked almost new and still had the price label
attached. I'd guess it was lost the previous weekend.
If you lost a trekking pole up there recently, or know somebody who has,
email me with a description and we'll work out how to return it.
Yogi
--
yogy.bear                    |   smarter than the
(at) btinternet.com       |   average spammer






Subject: Macabre find
From: Yogi Bear (yogi@jellystone.com)

On the col between Little Glas Maol and Glas Maol on Friday, I came across
the four legs of an adult sheep.  Just the legs, no other bones or bits of
fleece or anything anywhere nearby.  Not decayed at all, apparently in
perfect condition (apart from not being attached to a sheep).  Now, I'm used
to finding sheep carcasses on the hills, in various stages of decay, but
usually you get most of the animal, even if it has been scattered about a
bit.  I haven't seen anything like this before and found it rather creepy.
(I kept looking behind me all the way back to Glen Shee).
Can anyone explain this, or do I assume that the Beast of Bodmin has gone
north for the summer?
Yogi
--
yogy.bear                    |   smarter than the
(at) btinternet.com       |   average spammer






Subject: Re: Magellan GPS Systems in UK
From: W.D.Grey (bill@graigroad.demon.co.uk)

In article <jQOA6AANjfd3EwZL@winning.demon.co.uk>, Doug Antill
<nospam@winning.demon.co.uk> writes
>Actually, Going back to when I was in the Green Machine the most
>difficult terrain of all was heavy woodland or forests. Impossible to
>keep a straight line and no reference features to orientate a map.
Hi Doug,  As you say impossible to keep a straight line.  My I relate
one of my experiences when surveying the route of an overhead line
through dense forestry.  Due to the urgency of the job, we had the
services of three forestry workers to cut a ride for us. I gave them a
heading by means of compass bearing, range rods etc. and left them to
get on with cutting the ride. The ride was about 10 to 12 feet wide,
easily enough to do a survey.  They had to cut about 400 yards, and when
they'd completed the job, it was not possible to see right along the
ride because they were always in the ride when they were cutting and
believed themselves to be on-line. They had cut a gentle curve!
-- 
Bill
http://www.graigroad.demon.co.uk




Subject: Re: G.P.S.
From: Alan White (alan.lesley@dial.pipex.com)

On Sun, 27 Jun 1999 11:40:57 GMT, zeus@cix.compulink.co.uk ("Zeus
Computer Graphi") wrote:

>> Get OziExplorer. It's the best.
>
>I have just brought a GPS which will connect to a PC
>what does the software on the PC do?
>

See http://www.powerup.com.au/~lornew/oziexp.html

-- 
Alan White,
in England's Lake District.
http://ds.dial.pipex.com/alan.lesley/




Subject: Re: Bivi bags...
From: William R. Brabender, CGA (billb@inforamp.net)

A lightweight tarp set up over the opening of the bivy gives shelter
from rain, a place to cook, etc and adds minimal weight.

Bill

Simon Elliott wrote:
> 
> In article <7l520h$64a$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>, Alex <alex@clockwork.free
> serve.co.uk> writes
> >What are they like in the rain ?  I have been considering a Bivi bag
> >and the thing that's been making me hold back is the thought of
> >climbing into one when it's raining stair-rods :-)
> >
> >Alex
> >
> Pretty basic! Try and imagine setting up your bivvy bag, sleeping mat
> and sleeping bag, then taking off your wet outer gear and climbing in.
> All in the pouring rain.....
> --
> Simon Elliott




Subject: Re: G.P.S.
From: Alan White (alan.lesley@dial.pipex.com)

On Sun, 27 Jun 1999 11:40:57 GMT, zeus@cix.compulink.co.uk ("Zeus
Computer Graphi") wrote:

>> Get OziExplorer. It's the best.
>
>I have just brought a GPS which will connect to a PC
>what does the software on the PC do?
>

Also see http://joe.mehaffey.com

-- 
Alan White,
in England's Lake District.
http://ds.dial.pipex.com/alan.lesley/




Subject: Re: Sprayway trouble
From: Dave Cox (cox@cableinetnospam.co.uk)

What about a Gore Tex repair kit?

--

Coxie,
Remove nospam from my address to reply
ICQ 21559285
dacox@cableinet.nospamco.uk

Paul wrote in message <7l536j$j22$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>...
>For the past three years, I have used a Sprayway gortex jacket. (I think







Subject: Re: help needed finding the best campingsites in England / Scotland !
From: Ewan Crawford (ewan.crawford@lineone.net)

I live in Paisley which is on the west coast near Glasgow we have a local
scout centre which is a camp site the address is

Lapwing Lodge,
Scout Camping and Training Centre,
Caplaw,
Paisley,
Renfrewshire,
SCOTLAND

Tel: +44 (0)1505 812035

They will give you all the info you need about the site, although limited
it is about 3 miles from the town centre. It has hot showers, toilets and
fresh water supplies. Watch out which weekends you pick as a district
scouting event may be on!!!  Also the centre is in farmland and has a
large dam nearby, good country rambles are surrounding the area!

Ewan Crawford
ewan.crawford@lineone.net

Alrik Boonstra wrote:

> Hi UK-Walkers,
>
> In 3 weeks I'll leave Holland and head for Scotland / England. Because
> we are walkers and campers I am looking for some good campingsites in
> the following areas :
>
> Lake District
> Near Loch Lomond
> West Coast of Scotland
> Skye
>
> That will be our route for the first 2 weeks. After that we head for
> Devon / Cornwall. Any tips for camping in these areas are also very
> welcome.
>
> We like camping in a natural environment (near lakes, on mountains,
> great views, not to much caravans etc.) and we do not care much about
> facilities like swimmingpools, disco's etc. etc.
>
> I hope you can help us !
>
> Thanx,
>
> Alrik
> Alrik Boonstra
> aba@xs4all.nl
> 06 26020386
> ICQ # : 33117824





Subject: Re: G.P.S.
From: Jerry Hoare (jerryh@orchis.demon.co.uk)

I agree.  OziExplorer is very good - and comprehensive.  Well worth the
money if you can find a way to pay that you're comfortable with.

Jerry

jerryh@orchis.demon.co.uk



Alan White wrote in message <37760854.1360887@news.dial.pipex.com>...
>On Sun, 27 Jun 1999 11:28:34 -0700, "David Williams"
><willcctv@primex.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Help! can any one please recommend a web site for downloading software for
>>the GPS12, preferably one where you can scan the maps which cover your
>>route. I found a demo version  called oziexplorer, but the only way to get
>>the full version was to give credit card details on the net which i did
not
>>want to do because i didnt think it was a secure site.
>>
>
>Get OziExplorer. It's the best.
>
>--
>Alan White,
>in England's Lake District.
>http://ds.dial.pipex.com/alan.lesley/






Subject: Re: Macabre find
From: Alastair Ross (mail@"britt".prestel.co.uk)

Aliens...

--
Alastair Ross

Remove " " to reply...

Visit The Mountaineering and Recreation Information Pages
http://www2.prestel.co.uk/britt

Yogi Bear <yogi@jellystone.com> wrote in message
news:7l5kvm$pah$2@plutonium.btinternet.com...
> On the col between Little Glas Maol and Glas Maol on Friday, I came across
> the four legs of an adult sheep.  Just the legs, no other bones or bits of
> fleece or anything anywhere nearby.  Not decayed at all, apparently in
> perfect condition (apart from not being attached to a sheep).  Now, I'm
used
> to finding sheep carcasses on the hills, in various stages of decay, but
> usually you get most of the animal, even if it has been scattered about a
> bit.  I haven't seen anything like this before and found it rather creepy.
> (I kept looking behind me all the way back to Glen Shee).
> Can anyone explain this, or do I assume that the Beast of Bodmin has gone
> north for the summer?
> Yogi
> --
> yogy.bear                    |   smarter than the
> (at) btinternet.com       |   average spammer
>
>






Subject: Re: Bivi bags...
From: Simon Elliott (sce@wearside1.demon.co.uk)

In article <377661E2.FA389278@inforamp.net>, William R. Brabender, CGA
<billb@inforamp.net> writes
>A lightweight tarp set up over the opening of the bivy gives shelter
>from rain, a place to cook, etc and adds minimal weight.
>
>Bill
>
I've seen these and they seem quite good but by the time you pack the
bivi and the tarp you may as well carry a lightweight tent instead and
have some real comfort.


Have you read 'Clear water rising' by Nick Crane? He used a bivi and a
large umbrella as shelter on a mammoth trek across Europe. 
-- 
Simon Elliott




Subject: Re: Carn Bhac
From:  (liz_les@my-deja.com)

I dont need an excuse for not doing housework.  If a munro or bike ride
calls, I could walk through a crusty carped and inches of dust til the
cows come home.


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.




Subject: Re: Carn Bhac
From:  (liz_les@my-deja.com)

I dont need an excuse for not doing housework.  If a munro or bike ride
calls, I could walk through a crusty carpet and inches of dust til the
cows come home.


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.




Subject: Re: Macabre find
From: Gavin Whittaker (ah05@holyrood.ed.ac.uk)

Alastair Ross (mail@"britt".prestel.co.uk) wrote:
: Aliens...

  Nah, Wolves...





Subject: Re: American woman seeks UK walking tour info
From: Christopher Glover (c.glover@virgin.net)

Hi Jaye,
try the following site for walks in Shropshire (UK) a good site with places
to stay, visit etc http://www.go2.co.uk enjoy your visit. Chris


>>Hi! I'm a single, 43-year-old woman living in Philadelphia who is very
>active
>>in a local hiking group. I'd like to become acquainted with people who
>might be
>>interested in walking/hiking in the UK sometime between this fall and next
>>fall. I work as a writer/editor and also have a Ph.D. in American
>literature.
>>In addition to my love of the outdoors, I also enjoy reading, movies,
>travel,
>>and the arts. I have a ticket for London that I have to use before
December
>>2000. If anyone has any ideas or suggestions for an outdoor excursion,
>please
>>write back. Jaye

>
>






Subject: Saxon Shore Way
From: Rage (mr.bunny@bigfoot.com)

Has anyone done this route before?

Would you like to sum up the route, eg, mile / day, scenery, etc.

Any comments or experiences appreciated.

(Pls don't tell me to get a guide book.)

Rage.
====






Subject: Re: G.P.S.
From: David Prow (djprow@globalnet.co.uk)


David Williams <willcctv@primex.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7l4u39$8jv$1@supernews.com...
> Help! can any one please recommend a web site for downloading software for
> the GPS12, preferably one where you can scan the maps which cover your
> route. I found a demo version  called oziexplorer, but the only way to get
> the full version was to give credit card details on the net which i did
not
> want to do because i didnt think it was a secure site.
>
>
Hi David,

Ozi-explorer is the best . When you order it with
your credit card you give your details to "share-it" which is
a secure site.

David Prow






Subject: Re: G.P.S.
From: Zeus Computer Graphi (zeus@cix.compulink.co.uk)

TVM I will have a look
Mark




Subject: Re: Carn Bhac
From: Tony T (tonydotturton@btinternet.com)

liz_les@my-deja.com wrote in article <7l623h$ubr$1@nnrp1.deja.com>...
> I dont need an excuse for not doing housework.  If a munro or bike
ride
> calls, I could walk through a crusty carped and inches of dust til
the
> cows come home.

Personally I prefer walking outdoors :-)
Tony T
-- 
replace the DOT for email address




Subject: Re: Sprayway trouble
From: Tony T (tonydotturton@btinternet.com)

There was a thread on this a few months ago, IIRC

Basically, once the gtex membrane has gone, that's the end of it.
I've got a jacket that's suffered the same fate (6 yrs old). I have
washed it in Nikwax's waterproofing stuff, but it hasn't made much
difference. It's now consigned to light duties.

BTW, the same waterproofing treatment (see previous threads on
Paramo) worked a treat on a pertex/microfleece jacket which meant I
didn't have to buy a Paramo wind jacket.

Tony T
-- 
replace the DOT for email address

Mark Beecham <mark.beecham@tesco.net> wrote in article
<377615d6.2632833@news.freeuk.com>...
> On Sun, 27 Jun 1999 12:37:38 +0100, "Paul"
> <paulbmurphy@(nospam)homeletters.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> >
> >To the point; is anyone able to recommend a suitable spray, lotion
or potion
> >that will successfully re-proof and rejuvenate my ailing coat? I
know gortex
> >products come with some kind of factory coating - does Mr Gore
sell it to
> >the public?
> 
> Unfortunately, Goretex is not a "coated" fabric - it incorporates a
> membrane with microscopic holes to let water vapour out. 
> Having said that, if it's leaking, I don't see that a treatment of
> somekind [Nikwax or other] would do any harm...
> 




Subject: Cross-trainers
From: Chris Gilbert (chris.gilbert@ffs.nottingham.ac.uk)

..or whatever they're called these days.

I bought my first pair about 10 years ago and loved them to bits...literally. 
They eventually fell apart on me. While I was impressed with the comfort I 
have shied away from buying them again because they didn't seem to be very 
long lasting. Temptation got the better of me last week and I bought a pair of  
Merrell Red Desert. They're undoubtedly more robust than such shoes used to be 
and these come complete with a Vibram sole. Good stiffening and support for 
the ankle but light as a feather. I christened them on the Easedale horseshoe 
last thursday and they proved blissfully comfortable all the way 'round. Why 
did I leave it so long to buy a replacement pair ??

Oh yes, got married in Cockermouth last week as well.

Chris

--
=========================================
 Leave sooner, drive slower, live longer
=========================================
Note: There is no FFS in my email address




Subject: Re: Bivi bags...
From: ib/Root (irb@mistral.co.uk)

Describes my usual camp to a T

Ian

William R. Brabender, CGA <billb@inforamp.net> wrote in message
news:377661E2.FA389278@inforamp.net...
> A lightweight tarp set up over the opening of the bivy gives shelter
> from rain, a place to cook, etc and adds minimal weight.
>
> Bill
>
> Simon Elliott wrote:
> >
> > In article <7l520h$64a$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>, Alex <alex@clockwork.free
> > serve.co.uk> writes
> > >What are they like in the rain ?  I have been considering a Bivi bag
> > >and the thing that's been making me hold back is the thought of
> > >climbing into one when it's raining stair-rods :-)
> > >
> > >Alex
> > >
> > Pretty basic! Try and imagine setting up your bivvy bag, sleeping mat
> > and sleeping bag, then taking off your wet outer gear and climbing in.
> > All in the pouring rain.....
> > --
> > Simon Elliott






Subject: GLYNDWR'S WAY
From: Mike Armstrong (armstrong2@which.net)

Does anyone have any info about this walk?  I have the leaflet guides
from the countryside council for wales. It seems like alot of road
walking. Is it? are there any good sites for wild camping as we will be
backpacking? Any other info that I should have?  Thanks.

Mike.




Subject: Re: Cross-trainers
From: Alan White (alan.lesley@dial.pipex.com)

On 28 Jun 1999 08:20:37 GMT, Chris.Gilbert@FFS.Nottingham.ac.uk (Chris
Gilbert) wrote:

>
>Oh yes, got married in Cockermouth last week as well.
>

Well done Chris, congratulations to you both!! :-)

-- 
Alan White,
in England's Lake District.
http://ds.dial.pipex.com/alan.lesley/




Subject: Anyone used the path from Heron Pike to Grasmere ?
From: Philip Shore (pshore@nortelnetworks.comnospam)

Hi Folks,

I was in the Lakes from Thursday to Sunday and had a great time walking.
On Saurday afternoon we wanted to do a short circular walk so I decided
on a route which started at the car parks near Rydal Water, went through
the woods to Rydal and up Nab Scar to Heron Pike (NY 356 083). At this
point the plan was to take the path WNW to the northern end of Grasmere.
As expected the route looked very steep but there was no obvious path.
It was one of those situations where you were tempted to go down the
hill a little to see if there was more of a path etc etc  but I
resisted. Without there being a path (and therefore no steps) we turned
back avoiding a downward scramble or bum slide.

It was obviously not a well travelled path and I just wanted to know
what it would have been like.

We could have carried on North to Great Rigg and taken the well worn
path but we didn't want to walk too far. Anyway, a good time was had
with good weather and views (despite the haze) so the main objective was
met.

Happy hiking!
Phil.




Subject: Re: Macabre find
From:  (walkbritain@home.com)

sheep rustlers (or reivers?).

Tony Buckley wrote:
> 
> Gavin Whittaker wrote:
> 
> > Alastair Ross (mail@"britt".prestel.co.uk) wrote:
> > : Aliens...
> >
> >   Nah, Wolves...
> 
> No, dragons!  Big horrible ones with scales and teeth and claws and
> fiery breath and...
> 
> ...nurse!
> 
> Tony




Subject: Re: Macabre find
From: Gavin Whittaker (ah05@holyrood.ed.ac.uk)

Tony Buckley (a.g.buckley@dl.ac.uk) wrote:
: Gavin Whittaker wrote:

: > Alastair Ross (mail@"britt".prestel.co.uk) wrote:
: > : Aliens...
: >   Nah, Wolves...

: No, dragons!  Big horrible ones with scales and teeth and claws and
: fiery breath and...

: ...nurse!

  Why would the dragon need a nurse with it to do this?




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Sent:	03 July 1999 11:26
To:	kal1@lineone.net
Subject:	Daily Digest: uk.rec.walking 1/1


Subject: Re: Which GPS?
From: Paul Saunders (gwrtheryn@my-deja.com)

In article <7l8qb0$lmj$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>,
  "Bob Phillips" <rob.phillips@twemsoft.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> I am off to the States soon, where I assume I can get a GPS cheaper.
>
> Can someone direct me at the best site to do some preliminary
research on
> - what features are available
> - what models are available and which have which features
> - expected price.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> BP
>

Check out Garmin's website, they give information about all their
different models.

http://www.garmin.com/

Paul
>

--
Wilderness Wales
http://website.lineone.net/~wilderness/


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
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Subject: Re: HAPPY99 VIRUS ON GLYNDWR'S WAY POSTING
From:  (raj@pspl.com)

uk.rec.walking  Re: HAPPY99 VIRUS ON GLYNDWR'S WAY POSTING

To learn more about  Happy99 Trojan and its removal go to

http://www.pspl.com/trojan_info/win32/happy99.htm

You can use the Protector Plus evaluation program available at this site

http://www.pspl.com/download/download.htm

which will automatically detects and removes this Trojan and other viruses.

Raj
http://www.pspl.com



In article <19990628161608.15721.00007284@ng-fp1.aol.com>,
  neiltonks@aol.com (NeilTonks) wrote:
> NukeEmUp@ThePentagon.com (David Cantrell) wrote:
>
> >Only complete idiots would open executable attachments from untrusted
> >sources.
>
> That, or people who're new to the Net and don't know the dangers. Don't assume
> everyone has your level of knowledge of such things.
>
> Neil Tonks
>
> (Peak District website:  http://members.aol.com/pdwalks)
>


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
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Subject: Re: Which GPS?
From: Alan White (alan.lesley@dial.pipex.com)

On Mon, 28 Jun 1999 22:22:54 +0100, "Bob Phillips"
<rob.phillips@twemsoft.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

>
>I am off to the States soon, where I assume I can get a GPS cheaper.
>
>Can someone direct me at the best site to do some preliminary research on
>- what features are available
>- what models are available and which have which features
>- expected price.
>

Try http://joe.mehaffey.com

-- 
Alan White,
in England's Lake District.
http://ds.dial.pipex.com/alan.lesley/




Subject: Campsites in Zermatt valley ?
From: Tim Day (timday@bottlenose.demon.co.uk)

If anyone can recommend a good campsite to base ourselves in for a
couple of weeks in the Zermatt valley, it would be greatly appreciated.

We're going end of July/beginning of August; the Alpine Club guide seems
to suggest booking a campsite is essential at this time, but on previous
trips to the Arolla and Saas valleys (at a similar time of year) we've
never had any problems just turning up and finding a space.  Is the
Zermatt valley really that much more crowded ?

Thanks for any info
Tim Day


 




Subject: Re: corsica
From: Ken Scott (kscott5957@aol.comjunkstop)

"Chris Haydock" <chris@rec-road.demon.co.uk> writes:

>looking for day walks in calvi/st florent area?
>

These two places are a long way apart !  There are
thousands of possibilities in the NW.  Do you have 
use of a car ?  Do you want to get to or amongst 
the summits ?

If you could let us know some more specific 
needs,  I'll post some suggestions. 

.... Ken







Subject: Re: Givet In France
From: Pierre Lavaurs (lavaurs@jonas.univ-lyon1.fr)

In article <37761c83.8004126@news.virgin.net>,
peter.godfrey@nospamvirgin.net wrote:

> My wife and I are of to Givet in Northern France nexy week.
> 
> Does anyone know what the walking is like in the area please
> 
> 

Grand, absolutely grand.

The meanders of the Meuse are a great view, and not overcrowded.

As you'll see if you buy the most recent edition of IGN map (green series)
5, a lengthening of GR12 has now been established in the area of Montherm
through the most scenic parts of the area. It is a very good day walk
(easy from Givet, since there is a train between Givet and Charleville,
you can cut your walk wherever you want in the valley).

There is also a bus to Dinant in Belgium ; I was end of May on a fine walk
along the Lesse SE of Dinant, which is also worth also. You can also use
train there, since it is along the train line from Dinant to Libramont.




Subject: Re: Campsites in Zermatt valley ?
From: Perry (p.g.vanoossanen@deletethisbit.wbmt.tudelft.nl)

The main valley (Randa, Tasch, ...) is very crowded that time, but if you
drive up from St. Niklaus to Grachen it's a lot more quiet and there's also
a nice, small campsite. But if you want to do some climbing you will need to
take the car down to the valley, because routes with the starting point in
Grachen are few. You can get easy to the Bordierhut and do the Nadelgrat or
the Bigerhorn-Balfrin traverse from there, but that's all. If you go walking
it's pretty nice though. A great walk is to Saas Fee (about 7 houres i
think) by taking the "Hohenweg".
We arrived there end of july last summer and there were only three other
tents, so I don't think it's necessary to make a reservation.

Perry.

Tim Day heeft geschreven in bericht ...
>If anyone can recommend a good campsite to base ourselves in for a
>couple of weeks in the Zermatt valley, it would be greatly appreciated.
>
>We're going end of July/beginning of August; the Alpine Club guide seems
>to suggest booking a campsite is essential at this time, but on previous
>trips to the Arolla and Saas valleys (at a similar time of year) we've
>never had any problems just turning up and finding a space.  Is the
>Zermatt valley really that much more crowded ?
>
>Thanks for any info
>Tim Day
>
>
>





Subject: Wanted: South Downs OS Guide
From: Mike Mooney (m.j.mooney@bradford.ac.uk)

I've been looking in vain for the Ordnance Survey Leisure Guide to the
South Downs.

The OS did a number of these books a few years back, for various
walkable parts of the UK - each book had a 'things to do and see'
section at the front, with a bunch of maps at the back.  Unfortunately,
the series seems to be out of print - none of my local bookshops have
them anymore, and the online bookshops (Amazon, Waterstones, Dillons,
etc.) don't list them either.

If anyone can tell where I can get a copy of the South Downs book (or
has a surplus copy themselves), I'd be most grateful.

Cheers,

Mike







Subject: Re: Macabre find
From: Iain Sweetman (ims2@st-andrews.ac.uk)



Gavin Whittaker wrote:

> Tony Buckley (a.g.buckley@dl.ac.uk) wrote:
> : Gavin Whittaker wrote:
>
> : > Alastair Ross (mail@"britt".prestel.co.uk) wrote:
> : > : Aliens...
> : >   Nah, Wolves...
>
> : No, dragons!  Big horrible ones with scales and teeth and claws and
> : fiery breath and...
>
> : ...nurse!
>
>   Why would the dragon need a nurse with it to do this?

Well, any self-respecting dragon would follow sterile procedure when
performing such an operation (the cross infection danger is considerable,
especially given the nature of dragon breath). A scrub nurse would be a
minimum team requirement.... and a machine that goes ping.

Iain S





Subject: Re: Macabre find
From: Gavin Whittaker (ah05@holyrood.ed.ac.uk)

Iain Sweetman (ims2@st-andrews.ac.uk) wrote:
: Gavin Whittaker wrote:

: > Tony Buckley (a.g.buckley@dl.ac.uk) wrote:
: > : Gavin Whittaker wrote:
: >
: > : > Alastair Ross (mail@"britt".prestel.co.uk) wrote:
: > : > : Aliens...
: > : >   Nah, Wolves...
: >
: > : No, dragons!  Big horrible ones with scales and teeth and claws and
: > : fiery breath and...
: >
: > : ...nurse!
: >
: >   Why would the dragon need a nurse with it to do this?
: Well, any self-respecting dragon would follow sterile procedure when
: performing such an operation (the cross infection danger is considerable,
: especially given the nature of dragon breath). A scrub nurse would be a
: minimum team requirement.... and a machine that goes ping.

   So, were the wounds cauterised?  If they were, then it was a dragon
with surgical backup.  Otherwise, it's looking like alien wolves.


   
  





Subject: GPS - Help - which one do I need ?
From: Stephen (the-lodges@usa.net)

I am interested in buying a GPS  but Im not sure which ones are the best
for me.
I am basically going to use it for walking/hiking rather than anything else.

I have a laptop PC, so if I can plug it into that then that would be an
added bonus on occasions.

I have looked as a Raytheon GPS11 on www.seateach.com which looks a good
deal.
But whether it is really the best one available  Im not sure.
Does anyone have any experience of these ?

 My price bracket is up to  150, but anything cheaper would be gratefully
reviewed.

I know the ones with maps are more expensive  but are they really useful ?
- what are they like for hiking type activities ?
- are they any good for close-up work  or just great when youre in the car
or on a boat ?

Ive looked at the Garmin pages on the web too.

Any comments or helpful tips from those of you already experienced in the
market ?

Regards

Stephen







Subject: Re: GPS - Help - which one do I need ?
From: Zeus Computer Graphi (zeus@cix.compulink.co.uk)

I have a GPS and all I use it for is to get a grid ref, ideally all I 
would need is a stripped down tiny GPS with a screen only large enough for 
the grid ref. - watch size would be great
I find the rest of the features overkill, I head for the hills to get away 
from most of the technology I am surrounded by.

Mark




Subject: Re: Ben Bhuidhe 949m
From: Graham Benny (cnbs96@cc.sun.strath.ac.uk)

Richard Webb wrote:
> 
> The track up from nr Inverarnan gives out at a hydro weir between
> Troisgeach and Beinn Damhain. After that its Bogsville, Perthshire (or
> Dumbarton).  This is an old drove route.
> 

Thanks for the warning about the bogs. I don't mind long hydro tracks
even if they tend to be a bit unexciting, as long as they take me
somewhere new to explore but I'm not too keen on bogs. I've been up that
track as far as the big pipe that runs down from the back of Ben Oss and
back uphill on the Troisgeach side - weird!

> You could also take in Meall an Fhudair which gives agood view
> straight down Glen Fyne.

Been there in mid-winter a few years ago. Superb views and light down
Loch Fyne

> Its possible to go in a long way from Dalmally. Beware Forestry, but
> roads do penetrate as far as the ridge between Duncan Ban's Monument
> and Glen Shira.  Citylink may allow a traverse.

The Dalmally side looks the least attractive mainly because of extensive
afforestation which I presume destroys a lot of the views towards Loch
Awe and Cruachan. Butterfield's book implies being able to drive a fair
way up Glen Shira but I suspect things have changed since my copy was
printed - he also writes that you can drive up Glen Fyne but that has
obviously changed.

It is likely to be autumn or winter before I head there so perhaps the
best bet would be a frosty day from Inverarnan when Bogsville is hard
frozen?

Thanks again
Graham
-- 
Anti-Spam e-mail address modification in operation!
Extra '.' included - leave you to work out which one to remove.




Subject: Re: Campsites in Zermatt valley ?
From: Graham Benny (cnbs96@cc.sun.strath.ac.uk)

Tim Day wrote:
> 
> If anyone can recommend a good campsite to base ourselves in for a
> couple of weeks in the Zermatt valley, it would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> We're going end of July/beginning of August; the Alpine Club guide seems
> to suggest booking a campsite is essential at this time, but on previous
> trips to the Arolla and Saas valleys (at a similar time of year) we've
> never had any problems just turning up and finding a space.  Is the
> Zermatt valley really that much more crowded ?
> 

Had no problems 4 years ago at Tasch. It was busy but not crowded. We
went up to the Dom Hutte one night, climbed the Dom and were able to get
back into the campsite quite easily. Next time we went up high
(Breithorn, Castor & Pollux) we were able to leave tents up for a small
fee - saved us some time first thing in the morning for the early train
up to Zermatt.
The one further down the valley at Randa looked a bit busier but still
not too bad. However that was mid to late July so they might get busier
into August.
The one at Zermatt itself did not look too bad either but you need to
take your gear on the train, or get a taxi, from Tasch. Better supply of
shops at Zermatt for food, gas, etc. but you are sort of committed to
the top end of the valley if you base yourself there.

HTH
Graham
-- 
Anti-Spam e-mail address modification in operation!
Extra '.' included - leave you to work out which one to remove.




Subject: Re: Red Patches under calf muscle.
From: Surfer! (nevis-view@nospam.demon.co.uk)


So long as they go away quickly and don't hurt I wouldn't worry about
them.  Two causes come to mind:  rubbing cloths or simply increased
blood circulation.

In article <37745475.3CE0FA5D@heavysymlog.freeserve.co.uk>, Moto.
<mot@heavysymlog.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>I have been trying to increase my fitness and lose some weight over the
>last couple of months by increasing my walking distance gradually, I
>know it doesn't seem much of a mileage but as soon as I get over about 6
>Miles a day, I get red patches developing at the back of the legs
>between  the calf muscle and the ankle, I suspect circulation problems.
>I have not been used to walking long distances before, but now I'm
>retired I had visions of a healthy lifestyle walking between B&Bs in
>central Wales. I've made an appointment to see the GP, but I wondered if
>there was some experts on this NG who would recognize the symptoms and
>confirm if this is a common occurrence, should I ignore it, take
>Glucosamine, rest the legs( I hate that idea, it feels like giving up).
>When I first started my walks, I used to get excruciating pain in that
>part of my legs, but I was too pig headed to stop and so I walked
>through it .  What do you think? anyone else experience the same
>problem? BTW I'm in my early 60s.

-- 
Surfer!




Subject: Re: Macabre find
From: Yogi Bear (yogi@jellystone.com)

Gavin Whittaker wrote in message <7la8vl$p7q$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>...
>   So, were the wounds cauterised?  If they were, then it was a dragon
>with surgical backup.  Otherwise, it's looking like alien wolves.
>
Sorry, I didn't look that closely (unaccountably slipped my mind), but the
legs
definitely weren't barbecued, so that rather rules out the dragon theory.

The alien wolves might explain the 100 tons of gravel in the Caenlochan Glen
that someone else mentioned - maybe their UFO had to jettison ballast in
order to take off again?
How about the Big Grey Man of Ben Macdui, a little way from home?  Or some
very hungry campers?
Yogi
--
yogy.bear                    |   smarter than the
(at) btinternet.com       |   average spammer









Subject: Re: Macabre find
From: Yogi Bear (yogi@jellystone.com)

Richard Webb wrote in message <3777da75.9627939@news.u-net.com>...
>No
>Van H. walks amongst us
>
If it was van H., wouldn't it have been the remains of a walker and not a
sheep?
--
yogy.bear                    |   smarter than the
(at) btinternet.com       |   average spammer









Subject: Re: Which GPS?
From: MacChris (macchris@aol.comno-junk)

>> I am off to the States soon, where I assume I can get a GPS cheaper.
>>
> >Can someone direct me at the best site to do some preliminary
>>research on
>> - what features are available
>> - what models are available and which have which features
>> - expected price.
>>
>> Thanks in advance
>>
>> BP
>
>Check out Garmin's website, they give information about all their
>different models.
>
>http://www.garmin.com/

Also Magellen's site. www. magellen.com

I've seen prices at REI Co-op range from $60US for a no-frills model to $200
and up for all the bells and whistles.

----
                          O///
                         <|o>
                         /_\
                          | \           Get in touch with your inner piper




Subject: Re: Campsites in Zermatt valley ?
From: Hartmut Bielefeldt (hartmut.bielefeldt@physik.uni-augsburg.de)

Tim Day wrote:

> If anyone can recommend a good campsite to base ourselves in for a
> couple of weeks in the Zermatt valley, it would be greatly appreciated.
> ....
>  Is the
> Zermatt valley really that much more crowded ?

I think it's quite crowded but the very majority goes to Zermatt directly. I
remember the campground Attermenzen between Randa and Zermatt being quite
ok.
By the way, as far as I heard, you don't have to pay the campground for
nights that you spend at an SAC hut and leave your stuff down there, but you
should check that at the campground.

Regards
Hartmut
--
Dr. Hartmut Bielefeldt
Experimentalphysik VI
Universitaet Augsburg
D-86135 Augsburg, Germany
e-mail: Hartmut.Bielefeldt@physik.uni-augsburg.de
WWW: http://www.physik.uni-augsburg.de/~hartmutb , http://www.Bielefeldt.de






Subject: Re: UK-US information exchange wanted.
From: Andy Farrell (andy@nospam.demon.co.uk)

MacChris <macchris@aol.comno-junk> writes
>I'm also looking for someone who'll answer all those questions you don't want
>to ask in polite company

Who told you we're polite company? We'll set our midges on 'em!

> or don't want to ask for fear of looking really dumb
>(ie. What the hell's the deal with the UK monetary system? Quid, pound,
>shilling, penny, farthing, ad infinitum).

UK monetary system ("Sterling") is the Pound, with a hundred pennies in
a pound. Quick rule of thumb, a pound is about 1.5 dollars. Or a dollar
is about 65p. As for the rest, a quid is slang for a pound, shillings
and farthings went out of use in 1971.

-- 
Andy
      <swap 'nospam' for 'boondock' to reply>




Subject: Priming Petrol Stoves
From: Nick Thorne (nickt@nospam.demon.co.uk)

I'm the proud owner of an ageing Optimus petrol stove - and very good
and reliable it is too. It requires priming of course, and I recall,
years ago, being able to buy 'burning paste.' Only in small tubes, but
it was very convenient for backpacking, being a paste rather than a
liquid like meths, and the flame burnt very cleanly. (Contrast this with
burning petrol liquid to prime, which cakes everything in soot.) Can't
seem to buy it anymore. Anyone know if it's still available, or have the
H&S Eurocrats done away with it? I suppose it *did* have some of the
characteristics of napalm, but crikey, you could only buy it in small
tubes, one at a time! The biggest danger I thought of (but never
succumbed to) was mistaking it, in the dark, for a tube of toothpaste!
-- 
Nick Thorne

To reply, change *nospam* to *flogates* in the address.




Subject: AUSTRIA
From: Malcolm Voce (m.voce@virgin.net)

could anyone give me a good site for a walking holiday in austria?.
thanks
malc






Subject: Re: Campsites in Zermatt valley ?
From: Mike Green (mikey@cliffhanger.com)

The camp site just down from the railway station in Zermatt itself is fine and
I've always found space.

> Tim Day wrote:
>
> > If anyone can recommend a good campsite to base ourselves in for a
> > couple of weeks in the Zermatt valley, it would be greatly appreciated.
> > ....
> >  Is the
> > Zermatt valley really that much more crowded ?

Mike Green, Woburn Sands, UK - ICQ 20556341
Caving, mountaineering and ice climbing web site at
http://www.vapours.force9.co.uk/






Subject: walks around Sturminster Newton
From: Richard Erlebach (wastebin@highspy.demon.co.uk)

In article <7l4ogo$m4l$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>, Tom Whittaker <tom@whitta
kert.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>Know any good, fairly short (say 5-10 miles) walks around this area?
>

I recommend the book "Blackmore Vale & Cranborne Chase Walks" by Rodney
Legg ISBN 0902129813.  It has 15 walks in that area including a 5 mile
walk from Sturminster Newton up to a 9 mile walk from Tollard Royal.  

We have all of the author's books of walks in Dorset and he has a knack
of finding good walks off the beaten track.  We have done the Tollard
Royal walk on a bank holiday and not see any other walkers (you don't
have to go to the wilds for solitude).  The down side is that sometimes
the paths are overgrown - when wearing shorts we have been known to put
on waterproof overtrousers to cope with nettles etc.

Also the picture on the front cover does hint of the conditions you can
expect in winter - Mud !  It really is an unusual photo for a walk book
cover as 90% of the picture is mud, yet somehow the farm gate, cows and
sunshine make it quite pleasant to look at.

-- 
Richard Erlebach




Subject: Re: GPS - Help - which one do I need ?
From: Terry Elliott (terry@thelinds.demon.co.uk)

In article <FE38A5.Es3@cix.compulink.co.uk>, Zeus Computer Graphi
<zeus@cix.compulink.co.uk> writes
>I have a GPS and all I use it for is to get a grid ref, ideally all I 
>would need is a stripped down tiny GPS with a screen only large enough for 
>the grid ref. - watch size would be great
>I find the rest of the features overkill, I head for the hills to get away 
>from most of the technology I am surrounded by.
>
>Mark
I think that it is Casio who have just put a "wristwatch" GPS receiver
on the market....get saving your pennies!
-- 
Terry Elliott
Sunderland
Nort-East England




Subject: Re: GPS - Help - which one do I need ?
From: Alan White (alan.lesley@dial.pipex.com)

On Tue, 29 Jun 1999 12:39:29 +0100, "Stephen" <the-lodges@usa.net>
wrote:


Don't bother with ones with maps.

Get one with a serial port, to enable the saving of routes, tracks and
waypoints

For what you want look at the Garmin GPS12 or the Magellan 315.

See http://joe.mehaffey.com.

-- 
Alan White,
in England's Lake District.
http://ds.dial.pipex.com/alan.lesley/




Subject: Re: Anyone used the path from Heron Pike to Grasmere ?
From: Jhimmy (tarill@nayspamfreeuk.com)

Hi,

I tried to use the path the other way round, from Grasmere to Heron pike a
few saturday's ago.  The weather was OK, slight drizzle every so often.

I couldn't find the path from what I think is called "Michael's Fold" wood.
I made a quick decision to go to Alcock Tarn instead as I didn't fancy the
steep climb in wet underfoot conditions and no clear path.  Although there
isn't shown a path on the maps from Heron Pike to Alcock Tarn, I'm sure it's
possible to go that way via to Grasmere.

Jhimmy.







Subject: Re: GPS - Help - which one do I need ?
From: Neal Milne (neal@njtm.freeservenospam.co.uk)


Stephen <the-lodges@usa.net> wrote in message
news:930656412.650.0.nnrp-09.c2de3efb@news.demon.co.uk...
> I am interested in buying a GPS - but I'm not sure which ones are the best
> for me.
> I am basically going to use it for walking/hiking rather than anything
else.
>
> I have a laptop PC, so if I can plug it into that then that would be an
> added bonus on occasions.
>
> I have looked as a Raytheon GPS11 on www.seateach.com which looks a good
> deal.
> But whether it is really the best one available - I'm not sure.
> Does anyone have any experience of these ?
>
>  My price bracket is up to  150, but anything cheaper would be gratefully
> reviewed.
>
> I know the ones with maps are more expensive - but are they really useful
?
> - what are they like for hiking type activities ?
> - are they any good for close-up work - or just great when you're in the
car
> or on a boat ?
>
> I've looked at the Garmin pages on the web too.
>
> Any comments or helpful tips from those of you already experienced in the
> market ?
>
> Regards
>
> Stephen
>
Garmin G12 works for me. Costs about 130UKP from the likes of Maplin. Plugs
into a PC which makes inputting waypoints a lot easier.

The ones with the built in maps are no good for walking as the map is
motoring atlas scale.

Neal
>
>






Subject: Re: AUSTRIA
From: John (john.smith1@virgin.net)

Austrian Alpine Club (UK branch) - www.aacuk.demon.co.uk

John


Malcolm Voce wrote in message
<7lb16o$c4h$1@nclient5-gui.server.virgin.net>...
>could anyone give me a good site for a walking holiday in austria?.
>thanks
>malc
>
>






Subject: Re: UK-US information exchange wanted.
From: Chris Newton (blueheron@ezsf.net)

I'd be interested in that as well -- although I'm also American!  I've done
the Wainwright Coast-to-Coast and am gearing up for another cross country
English jaunt in September.  I'm also midway through the GR5 on the
Continent, but am taking this year off to do another England walk.

So I know some, but I would love to learn more - like dealing with the rain
and mud (non-existent here in California) and the best bitter beers in
Cumbria and Yorkshire, and can you use phone cards in the pay phones in the
little back country villages yet.

In return I'll pass on any Americano tips, like the best .45 to carry, and
what to do when the cows start talking to you.

Chris N.

MacChris wrote in message <19990628171248.08647.00005376@ng-fa1.aol.com>...
>We can call it "Friendship Across the Pond." Or something.
>
 (I paid $14US for a OS Landranger map).

Me too, but they're not cheap in the UK either.








Subject: Re: Fisherfield
From: Richard Webb (user@crux.u-net.com)

On Mon, 28 Jun 1999 21:04:50 GMT, jim@willsher.sol.co.uk (Jim
Willsher) wrote:

>Had the most fantastic trip to Fisherfield at the weekend.
Arnt they always...
>


>PS There's a plaque at Larachantivore, and another web site talks
>about a hut burning down in 1985 and this plaque being a memorial to
>those who died in the fire. Does anyone have any information on this?
>My SMC journals don't go back that far. I'm keen to know the origin of
>the plaque, and the names of those people (and Smudge) ont he plaque.
>
>


The fire was in an outbuilding. Two young estate workers were
servicing an outboard motor (estate access is usualy up the loch)
Somehow the fuel ignited, the motor between them and the door.

Richard Webb




Subject: Re: AUSTRIA
From: Nigel Morgan (nigel@rodmell.demon.co.uk)

In article <7lb16o$c4h$1@nclient5-gui.server.virgin.net>, Malcolm Voce
<m.voce@virgin.net> writes
>could anyone give me a good site for a walking holiday in austria?.
>thanks
>malc
>
>

In summer:
-The Karwendal Range, easy access from Innsbruck;

-The Wilder Kaiser Range (but that is more scrambling);

-The Stubai Valley and the Valley to its south with Trins;

-The south end of the Zillertal Valley, around Mayrhofen and towards
Hintertux.


Enjoy Austria; it's great!

Nigel

Please visit our website at: http://www.fintco.demon.co.uk/siblets




Subject: Re: 2 dayer
From: Paul Upham (paul.upham@btinternet.com)

>                    A friend and I are planning a 2 day walk starting from
>Great Langdale. Has any one any ideas on where to leave the car for the
>night in Great Langdale where it will be reasonably safe. Thanks in advance
>for any replys.


Well, there is a National Trust car park near the Sticklebarn Inn, not sure
if you are allowed to park overnight though. Also, may not be safe, but I
guess anywhere will be a risk! One thing for sure though, if you can use a
NT car park for 2 days, it will hurt your wallet!!

If you are planning 2 seperate day walks, camping in the Great Langdale
site, you can leave the car in the camp site, I think the cost is 2 per
night. I doubt if they would allow you to park the car there if you were not
staying there, even if you offer to pay, but you never know, maybe worth a
try. They do get full up with cars, so would probably deter people doing
that.

Not many other places along there. I have seen cars parked up on the
roadside toward Stoolend, or heading over towards Wrynose, but that is more
of a risk.

Regards

Paul






Subject: Briancon
From: Nick Thorne (nickt@nospam.demon.co.uk)

Any recommendations for good walks around Briancon? We will be camping
there for a couple of weeks in early August. I have the Cicerone guide
by Martin Collins to the GR5. This path passes through Briancon, and I
fully intend to sample a bit of it. Any other suggestions? Walks of
potentially any standard could be of interest.
-- 
Nick Thorne

To reply, change *nospam* to *flogates* in the address.




Subject: Re: GPS - Help - which one do I need ?
From: Zeus Computer Graphi (zeus@cix.compulink.co.uk)

> I think that it is Casio who have just put a "wristwatch" GPS receiver
> on the market....get saving your pennies!
sounds like gadget heaven

Shhhh don't tell my wife
Mark




Subject: Re: Priming Petrol Stoves
From: Nigel Crompton (nigel@crompton.airtime.co.uk)

On Tue, 29 Jun 1999 18:21:12 +0100, Nick Thorne
<nickt@nospam.demon.co.uk> spouted:

>I'm the proud owner of an ageing Optimus petrol stove - and very good
>and reliable it is too. It requires priming of course

Used to prime mine by sleeping with it in the bug-bag.

Many, many, many years ago I was fortunate to get a month-long course
at Outward Bound, Ullswater. Petrol stoves were standard issue then
but primer fuel wasn't issued; body warmth was the only way to get em
started,

CU ...Nigel..




Subject: Re: Fisherfield
From: Jim Willsher (jim@willsher.sol.co.uk)

Many thanks Richard. I wasn't sure if they were hillwalkers or
workers, the fact that the plaque reads 'friends of the hill'.

I did supect that access was via the loch, as the Corrie Hallie track
only goes as far as Achnegie (not even Shenaval) and there have been
various shabby attempts a bridging streams from the loch to
Larachantivore.



Jim

On Tue, 29 Jun 1999 19:17:35 GMT, user@crux.u-net.com (Richard Webb)
wrote:

>On Mon, 28 Jun 1999 21:04:50 GMT, jim@willsher.sol.co.uk (Jim
>Willsher) wrote:
>
>>Had the most fantastic trip to Fisherfield at the weekend.
>Arnt they always...
>>
>
>
>>PS There's a plaque at Larachantivore, and another web site talks
>>about a hut burning down in 1985 and this plaque being a memorial to
>>those who died in the fire. Does anyone have any information on this?
>>My SMC journals don't go back that far. I'm keen to know the origin of
>>the plaque, and the names of those people (and Smudge) ont he plaque.
>>
>>
>
>
>The fire was in an outbuilding. Two young estate workers were
>servicing an outboard motor (estate access is usualy up the loch)
>Somehow the fuel ignited, the motor between them and the door.
>
>Richard Webb



Jim Willsher (jim@willsher.sol.co.uk)

Homepages at http://www.sol.co.uk/w/willsher




Subject: Re: Anyone used the path from Heron Pike to Grasmere ?
From: Ken Scott (kscott5957@aol.comjunkstop)

 Philip Shore <pshore@nortelnetworks.comNOSPAM> writes:

>It was obviously not a well travelled path and I just wanted to know
>what it would have been like.

I have been down here.  As I recall we just took a line straight down
the steep grass slope directly from the summit.  It was a clear 
evening but dusking fast (November I think) so it was a quick 
descent. I don't remember any path at all, but neither were there any 
difficulties.

cheers
................ Ken







Subject: Re: Briancon
From: The Ferret (ferret@chateauferret.demon.co.uk)

On Tue, 29 Jun 1999 20:16:24 +0100, Nick Thorne
<nickt@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>Any recommendations for good walks around Briancon? We will be camping
>there for a couple of weeks in early August. I have the Cicerone guide
>by Martin Collins to the GR5. This path passes through Briancon, and I
>fully intend to sample a bit of it. Any other suggestions? Walks of
>potentially any standard could be of interest.

	The de rigeur walk is to the Croix de Toulouse, a walk I did when
I was sixteen and accompanied by several nubile young females but I'm
sure I enjoyed it for the view as well :-)

	For inspiration in Alpine parts, it's worth looking at Edward
Whymper's 1903 guides for Chamonix and Zermatt, which are available in
facsimile, and of course Scrambles, which talks about places this far
south.

==========                                             Martin Bucknall
The Ferret                                          Stirling, Scotland
==========                            ferret@chateauferret.demon.co.uk
             * Si tacuisses, professus mansisses *




Subject: Re: Priming Petrol Stoves
From: Andrew Nichols (andy@nospam.demon.co.uk)

In article <2x1ItFAICQe3EwQR@flogates.demon.co.uk>, Nick Thorne
<nickt@nospam.demon.co.uk> writes
>I'm the proud owner of an ageing Optimus petrol stove - and very good
>and reliable it is too. It requires priming of course, and I recall,
>years ago, being able to buy 'burning paste.' Only in small tubes, but
>it was very convenient for backpacking, being a paste rather than a
>liquid like meths, and the flame burnt very cleanly. (Contrast this with
>burning petrol liquid to prime, which cakes everything in soot.) Can't
>seem to buy it anymore. Anyone know if it's still available, or have the
>H&S Eurocrats done away with it?
I haven't seen it for ages. Try a little squirter bottle of meths, which
was what we all used to use before Colgate started making the paste;
apart from Waddington, of course, who always just overpumped the cold
stove and set fire to it.
-- 
Andrew Nichols
                NB spamtrap




Subject: GPS 12 Accuracy
From: Ian Allman (ian.allman@virgin.net)

I have recently bought a Garmin GPS12.  Having marked various waypoints at
different times and over a fairly wide area (20 miles), I have found
Northing grid references to be out by between 400 and 500 meters with
Eastings out by about 150m.  I am using Ordnance Survey maps and have the
GPS set to :-

Position FRMT : British Grid
Map Datum : WGS 84
CDI : +- 0.25
Units : Statute
Heading:
Auto H004 deg
Degrees

Can anyone tell me if these settings are correct and if there is anything I
can do to improve accuracy.  I thought, even taking Selective Availability
into consideration, it should in general be accurate to within 100 Metres.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated as I am new to this.

Many Thanks

Ian.

ian.allman@virgin.net










Subject: Solar Eclipse
From: Roy Layton (layton@storage.force9.co.uk.)



I thought I might experience the eclipse from the top of Ingleborough
but am not sure how much of an event it will be so far north. Anybody
found a web site with eclipse percentage info? 




Subject: Re: GPS 12 Accuracy
From: Paul Saunders (gwrtheryn@my-deja.com)

In article <7lbgcl$h5h$1@nclient3-gui.server.virgin.net>,
  "Ian Allman" <ian.allman@virgin.net> wrote:
> I have recently bought a Garmin GPS12.  Having marked various
> waypoints at
> different times and over a fairly wide area (20 miles), I have found
> Northing grid references to be out by between 400 and 500 meters with
> Eastings out by about 150m.  I am using Ordnance Survey maps and have
> the GPS set to :-
>
> Position FRMT : British Grid
> Map Datum : WGS 84
> CDI : +- 0.25
> Units : Statute
> Heading:
> Auto H004 deg
> Degrees
>
> Can anyone tell me if these settings are correct and if there is
> anything I can do to improve accuracy.  I thought, even taking
> Selective Availability into consideration, it should in general be
> accurate to within 100 Metres.
>
You've got the Map Datum wrong, it needs to be set to Ord Srvy GB.

Apparently you can get a Differential GPS receiver to plug into it
which will improve accuracy to 1-5 metres but I gather they're very
expensive.  I don't know much about them.  Anyone know if you can get a
reasonably cheap one?

--
Wilderness Wales
http://website.lineone.net/~wilderness/


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.




Subject: Re: Macabre find
From: Stuart Baldwin (stuart@boxatrix.demon.co.uk)

On Tue, 29 Jun 1999 14:15:12 +0100, "Yogi Bear" <yogi@jellystone.com>
wrote:

>Richard Webb wrote in message <3777da75.9627939@news.u-net.com>...
>>No
>>Van H. walks amongst us
>>
>If it was van H., wouldn't it have been the remains of a walker and not a
>sheep?

Ugh!  I can just imagine the Trackster encased legs with boots on the
dry ends and a pair of trekking poles stuck in the ground with arms
dangling from them...
-- 
Stuart Baldwin




Subject: Re: Priming Petrol Stoves
From: Paul Saunders (gwrtheryn@my-deja.com)

In article <2x1ItFAICQe3EwQR@flogates.demon.co.uk>,
  Nick Thorne <nickt@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> I'm the proud owner of an ageing Optimus petrol stove - and very good
> and reliable it is too. It requires priming of course

Probably not much help to you but I've been using a Coleman petrol
stove for a few years now and it's given me excellent service.  I used
to have an Optimus but I think the Coleman is much better.  It doesn't
require priming since it has an inbuilt pump and it never gets sooty.

You can get them from Argos for just 26, amazing value, highly
recommended, although I get the impression you're rather attached to
the Optimus.

Paul

--
Wilderness Wales
http://website.lineone.net/~wilderness/


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.




Subject: Re: Solar Eclipse
From: Paul Saunders (gwrtheryn@my-deja.com)

In article <3779445e.8452079@news.force9.net>,
  layton@storage.force9.co.uk. (Roy Layton) wrote:
>
>
> I thought I might experience the eclipse from the top of Ingleborough
> but am not sure how much of an event it will be so far north. Anybody
> found a web site with eclipse percentage info?

Try the Sky at Night site;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/skyatnight/eclipse.shtml

You'll probably get 85-90% coverage but it needs to be total to get the
full experience with the diamond ring effect.

Paul

--
Wilderness Wales
http://website.lineone.net/~wilderness/


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.




Subject: Re: GPS 12 Accuracy
From: Alan White (alan.lesley@dial.pipex.com)

On Wed, 30 Jun 1999 01:19:21 GMT, Paul Saunders
<gwrtheryn@my-deja.com> wrote:

>
>Apparently you can get a Differential GPS receiver to plug into it
>which will improve accuracy to 1-5 metres but I gather they're very
>expensive.  I don't know much about them.  Anyone know if you can get a
>reasonably cheap one?

Why do you need that degree of accuracy?

-- 
Alan White,
in England's Lake District.
http://ds.dial.pipex.com/alan.lesley/




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Subject: Re: Campsites in Zermatt valley ?
From: Nick Hill (nick@penninedata.demon.co.uk)

On Tue, 29 Jun 1999 18:53:08 +0100, Mike Green <mikey@cliffhanger.com>
wrote:
>...The camp site just down from the railway station in Zermatt itself is fine and
>...I've always found space.

I'd agree with that.  There's a nearby supermarket too (well there was
10 years ago).  We also had loads of hotle guests proping up the
railings beside the railway - watching us go about our cooking etc.

Nick.





Subject: Re: UK-US information exchange wanted.
From:  (walkbritain@home.com)

Thank you.

Katherine

Paul Saunders wrote:
> 
> In article <377A71C3.FB2B5DEB@home.com>,
>   walkbritain@home.com wrote:
> > I have kilometers down but have a hard time converting meters into
> > feet as in elevation.
> 
> It's actually dead easy to do a rough conversion of metres into feet.
> Just multiply by three and add a tenth of the result.
> 
> For example, if the height is 700 metres then 700 times 3 equals 2100,
> a tenth of 2100 is 210, add 210 to 2100 and you get 2310 ft.  The
> actual height is 2297 ft which is only 13 ft out.  Not bad eh?
> 
> --
> Wilderness Wales
> http://website.lineone.net/~wilderness/
> 
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Share what you know. Learn what you don't.




Subject: Re: 101 Uses for a GPS
From: Gordon Harris (gordon1@g3snx.demon.co.uk)

In article <imEe3.132$s5.12176@news.inreach.com>, Michael Painter
<mpainter@inreach.com> writes
>
>belgrave <lomax@globalnet.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:7le5ef$j2o$1@gxsn.com...
>>
>>    18. Acquire a "better than nothing" idea of where you are when
>>          the mist/clouds/snow closes in and you don't have your
>>          bearings.
>
>19 - 30 Finding out how tall the building is.
>

31. Checking when you have reached terminal velocity when you jump.

32. Speculating posthumously whether it will measure vertical speed.
-- 
Gordon1




Subject: Re: GPS n'all that
From: Gordon Harris (gordon1@g3snx.demon.co.uk)

In article <2P0+TbBZrqe3EwTQ@thequiff.demon.co.uk>, Martin Richardson
<martinr@thequiff.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>Not any less valid a topic for this ng than other perennials e.g. Paramo
>clothing and 'Is there snow on Ben Nevis yet?'
>
Or 'I am spending 3 months in Milton Keynes, does anyone know of any
walks in the area'.

Much more fun to get the map and plan yer own walks.
-- 
Gordon1




Subject: Ben Sgritheall
From: Dr Paul J Henney (p.henney@bgs.ac.uk)

Ah paradise!


Was "forced" to work up in Kintail last week (ohh, the trials and
tribulations of being a geologist..having to work out doors in the Highlands
in the summer..and they pay me as well !  :-).

After 3 days piddling about in the Glen More River in Ratagain I skived off,
errr, did some mapping, on Ben Sgritheall on Saturday PM before the weather
turned.
Bliss, not another soul about, saw a Sea Eagle being mobbed by Ravens, and
ran down the scree on the way back. Lovely views into the Five Sisters and
Glen Lichd.

Now tell me why I should become a chartered accountant again ????


pj






Subject: Re: Campsites in Zermatt valley ?
From: Mike Green (mikey@cliffhanger.com)

The nearby supermarket was there last year too - but then, Zermatt's not that big.

Nick Hill wrote:

> On Tue, 29 Jun 1999 18:53:08 +0100, Mike Green <mikey@cliffhanger.com>
> wrote:
> >...The camp site just down from the railway station in Zermatt itself is fine and
> >...I've always found space.
>
> I'd agree with that.  There's a nearby supermarket too (well there was
> 10 years ago).  We also had loads of hotle guests proping up the
> railings beside the railway - watching us go about our cooking etc.
>
> Nick.

--
Mike Green, Woburn Sands, UK - ICQ 20556341
Caving, mountaineering and ice climbing web site at
http://www.vapours.force9.co.uk/






Subject: Guided Walks France???
From: Peter Norman (peter@namron.demon.co.uk)

Anyone got personal recommendation for companies organising guided walks
in France Other than HF or RH
--
peter
                    




Subject: Re: 101 Uses for a GPS
From: Matti Lamprhey (matti@polka.bikini)

John Dawson <john@jondaw.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:377c1e09.34611847@news.demon.co.uk...
> On Thu, 01 Jul 1999 08:22:03 +0100, Tim Forcer
> <tmf@ecs.soton.ac.uk.nojunk> wrote:
>
> >26.  (For Merkins)
>
> I had to look up this word in the OED. It says a Merkin is an
> artificial vagina or pubic wig ;-)

>From now on, whenever you hear Clinton address "ma fellow merkins", just
hold that thought and smirk.

Matti






Subject: Re: Wanted: South Downs OS Guide
From: "Nigel Tay" <@lineone.net> ("Nigel Tay" <@lineone.net>)

The South Downs guide is out of print. Next version not due until at least
February. Try looking around; we found several copies in Portsmouth (and
left most of them there!)

Nigel

Mike Mooney wrote in message <3778A630.B14BB3C@bradford.ac.uk>...
>I've been looking in vain for the Ordnance Survey Leisure Guide to the
>South Downs.
>
>The OS did a number of these books a few years back, for various
>walkable parts of the UK - each book had a 'things to do and see'
>section at the front, with a bunch of maps at the back.  Unfortunately,
>the series seems to be out of print - none of my local bookshops have
>them anymore, and the online bookshops (Amazon, Waterstones, Dillons,
>etc.) don't list them either.
>
>If anyone can tell where I can get a copy of the South Downs book (or
>has a surplus copy themselves), I'd be most grateful.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Mike
>
>
>






Subject: Re: AUSTRIA
From: duncan & clare (duncan.clare@ukonline.co.uk)

Just got back from Finkenberg in the Zillertal-it was great.
No end of walking, could probably spend a lifetime there!
Enjoy

--

Duncan Johnston
Aberdeen
Scotland


Malcolm Voce <m.voce@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:7lb16o$c4h$1@nclient5-gui.server.virgin.net...
> could anyone give me a good site for a walking holiday in austria?.
> thanks
> malc
>
>






Subject: The ULTIMATE personal safety device for people and pets!
From: Chas Richardson (chas.richardson@flasherweb.com)

Could you believe that a FLASHER could save you life or the life of your
pet?  Would you settle for a FLASHER that would simply make you more visible
in periods of darkness?  Your one click away from viewing a detailed web
site which includes Pictures, Facts & Figures, Testimonials, and our On-Line
Ordering page.... www.FlasherWeb.com

We just returned from a 400 mile cycling fun ride where in two days (18
hours total) 67 FLASHERS were sold to walkers, pet owners, cyclist,
children,
runners, and campers.

The FLASHER booth was situated in the middle of "tent city", which consisted
of approx. 300 tents.  One camper, who had bought a FLASHER at a previous
event had placed his FLASHER on top of his tent so that he and his wife
could easily spot their tent (as well as their friends).  Two days into the
event, when we set up our booth, roughly 20 people came up to buy a FLASHER,
making a direct recference to the one tent which FLASHER occupied throughout
the evening hours.

FLASHER has a money back guarantee, what do you have
to loose?!

PS:  If there are any retail owners/managers out there that are interested
in
carrying FLASHER, please drop me a line.











Subject: Re: UK-US information exchange wanted.
From: Mark Wilden (mark@wilden16.freeserve.co.uk)

Alan Pemberton <spambox@Pemberton.u-net.com> wrote in message
news:1du7njc.hrmx76x3deswN@p123.nas2.is5.u-net.net...
> <walkbritain@home.com> wrote:
>
> You'll have no problem with UK currency, as it's boringly simple. There
> are a hundred pennies in a pound and a pound is worth one hundred pence.
> Full stop. The coins are called 1p, 2p, 5p, 10p, 20p, 50p, a pound and
> two pounds.

It is _slightly_ difficult for an American to get used to 20p pieces instead
of quarters.

When I called Alan about going walking (thread drift save!), I had a bit of
trouble on that account. :)






Subject: Re: Ben Sgritheall
From: Jim Willsher (jim@willsher.sol.co.uk)

Nice one.

Ben Sgritheall is one of my desired peaks, mostly because it's an
awkward bugger to get to road-wise unless you are staying up that way.
Any info on your trip?


Jim

On Thu, 1 Jul 1999 16:59:54 +0100, "Dr Paul J Henney"
<P.Henney@bgs.ac.uk> wrote:

>Ah paradise!
>
>
>Was "forced" to work up in Kintail last week (ohh, the trials and
>tribulations of being a geologist..having to work out doors in the Highlands
>in the summer..and they pay me as well !  :-).
>
>After 3 days piddling about in the Glen More River in Ratagain I skived off,
>errr, did some mapping, on Ben Sgritheall on Saturday PM before the weather
>turned.
>Bliss, not another soul about, saw a Sea Eagle being mobbed by Ravens, and
>ran down the scree on the way back. Lovely views into the Five Sisters and
>Glen Lichd.
>
>Now tell me why I should become a chartered accountant again ????
>
>
>pj
>



Jim Willsher (jim@willsher.sol.co.uk)

Homepages at http://www.sol.co.uk/w/willsher




Subject: Re: 101 Uses for a GPS
From: Mark Wilden (mark@wilden16.freeserve.co.uk)

John Dawson <john@jondaw.demon.co.uk> wrote in message >
> I had to look up this word in the OED. It says a Merkin is an
> artificial vagina or pubic wig ;-)

The latter is more common, leading to an amusing character name in "Dr
Strangelove": Merkin Muffley. :)






Subject: Re: GPS
From: Mark Wilden (mark@wilden16.freeserve.co.uk)

Bryan R <M1DKR@m1dkr.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7le7ip$t9s$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> [A GPS] can't replace the trusty map and compass

I hear this frequently. What I've never heard is someone aver that it can.






Subject: Re: advice on buying new 3-person tent
From: andy (andy@andywgg.demon.co.uk)

My brother and his mates are raving about some tents made by Mark
Vallance who used to be the Wild Country bloke - my brother got a good
2/3 person jobby for about 250 - and it comes with a heavy duty
footprint groundsheet for valley use which most people charge you
another 30 quid for.

andy




Subject: Re: Fundraising Team in Horse Crash
From: Alan Ashton (alan.ashton@tesco.net)


       Alan Ashton, Ty'n-y-Ffridd, Llechwedd,
                  CONWY.  LL32 8LJ
Halfway up Tal-y-Fan, lovely view of Blackpool Tower

I was one of the first on the scene of a collision
between a ridden horse and a car some years ago,  it
was very upsetting.  The horse was dead, the girl
riding it serously injured, and what people don't
realise.... the occupants of the car were also
seriously injured, and the car a write off.  A horse is
very heavy.
My daughter rides a lot...please slow down when you see
horses, and obey any instructions the riders indicate.
Alan




Subject: Re: 2 dayer
From: tony (tony@beedham.demon.co.uk)

In article <7l8oob$lh9$1@news4.svr.pol.co.uk>, Stephen Aspey
<ste.ve@ste-aspey.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>Hi everyone,
> any ideas on where to leave the car for the
>night in Great Langdale where it will be reasonably safe?

Try offering a farm, hotel, or any other residence 5 or 10 pounds
(depending on your financial status) for parking near their property.

Sometimes a bottle or a box of chocs will suffice.  It's always worked
for me, and I suspect they take great care of your vehicle. 

*Tone




Subject: Re: The ULTIMATE personal safety device for people and pets!
From: Alan White (alan.lesley@dial.pipex.com)

On Thu, 1 Jul 1999 14:34:34 -0400, "Chas Richardson"
<Chas.Richardson@FlasherWeb.com> wrote:

>...
>The FLASHER booth was situated in the middle of "tent city", which consisted
>of approx. 300 tents.  One camper, who had bought a FLASHER at a previous
>event had placed his FLASHER on top of his tent so that he and his wife
>could easily spot their tent (as well as their friends).  Two days into the
>event, when we set up our booth, roughly 20 people came up to buy a FLASHER,
>making a direct recference to the one tent which FLASHER occupied throughout
>the evening hours.
>...

Twenty people with flashers on their tents must:-

a) have made it quite difficult for those twenty to locate their
tents,

b) have infuriated everybody around them trying to get to sleep.

-- 
Alan White,
in England's Lake District.
http://ds.dial.pipex.com/alan.lesley/




Subject: Re: Campsites in Zermatt valley ?
From: Malcolm Burch (a.bburch@a.bbtinternet.com)

On Tue, 29 Jun 1999 08:51:23 +0100, Tim Day
<timday@bottlenose.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>If anyone can recommend a good campsite to base ourselves in for a
>couple of weeks in the Zermatt valley, it would be greatly appreciated.
>
>We're going end of July/beginning of August; the Alpine Club guide seems
>to suggest booking a campsite is essential at this time, but on previous
>trips to the Arolla and Saas valleys (at a similar time of year) we've
>never had any problems just turning up and finding a space.  Is the
>Zermatt valley really that much more crowded ?
>
>T
I've always stopped at Attermenzen, about 2 miles South of Tasch. Good
loos, a shop (will freeze ice blocks) & restaurant. Been busy
sometimes but I've always found a tent space.

Unless it's now stopped they have a regular minibus which takes you
into Zermatt, cheaper & quicker than the train.

Enjoy your walking/climbing, given a choice I would rather go here
than anywhere else in the alps.
Malcolm
----------
Antispam ...remove 2 lots of a.b




Subject: Re: whats it called ?
From: aidan leonard (aidan@boxtys.freeserve.co.uk)

Thanks everyone, I was beginning to wonder if someone had slipped something
into my bait! But then I do have some (rather poor) photos of the first
one, taken on a 3000 ft ridgeback of a mountain called "the barometer" on
Kodiac island off the coast of Alaska. The second time was a bit closer to
home but no less fantastic,on the summit of Scafell pike on a late summers
evening as a prelude to a perfect bivi with two friends, bottle of wine,
shooting stars, as Gavin says-Its called a good day out.        

Cass <Cass@cassidy98.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in article
<7km831$bd6$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>...
> 
> aidan leonard <aidan@boxtys.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:01beb90b$d83540a0$5d34883e@default...
> 
> 
> 




Subject: Re: Parking for munros
From: Nigel Cliffe (ncliffe@btinternet.xgarbagex.com)

In article <7l916r$sj0$4@news4.svr.pol.co.uk>, "Duncan Gray"
<duncan@duncolm.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

> Richard Webb wrote in message <3777d464.8074628@news.u-net.com>...
> >On Tue, 22 Jun 1999 23:12:53 +0100, "BurtonBooks"
> ><burtonbooks@tesco.net> wrote:

> >>If it's privacy you want, then surely a Munro is one of the last places to
> >>go?
> >>john

> >M*nr*s are fine, all you have to do is avoid the wee red lines in That
> >Book.

> And the summits of course

Only the famous ones or weekends, even on the red lines. The ones with long
walks from the roads are pretty quiet mid-week. Saw three people and only
one close enough to speak to during one day of 34km last week (though not
on a 'recommended' red line, just an 'alternative').  

- Nigel

-- 
Nigel Cliffe, BT Labs, Martlesham.     
 check the reply address for garbage         




Subject: Re: Fundraising Team in Horse Crash
From: Jonathan J Quick (no@spam.here)

Alan Ashton <Alan.Ashton@tesco.net> wrote in article
<7lgf6u$6na$1@barcode.tesco.net>...
> 
> I was one of the first on the scene of a collision
> between a ridden horse and a car some years ago,  it
> was very upsetting.  The horse was dead, the girl
> riding it serously injured, and what people don't
> realise.... the occupants of the car were also
> seriously injured, and the car a write off.  A horse is
> very heavy.
> My daughter rides a lot...please slow down when you see
> horses, and obey any instructions the riders indicate.

It's a sad fact that there are accidents and fatalities every year caused
by motorists who won't slow down or allow sufficient room for horses, and
especially by drivers who refuse to obey signals from riders because they
"won't be told what to do by some stuck-up git on a horse". Even worse are
drivers who go excessively fast on single-track lanes in rural areas like
Dartmoor (where I live). Motorists should remember that the horse was here
first, and broken horses, unlike broken cars, generally can't be repaired.

JJ.

-- 
Email: jjquick@foxtrot.co.uk
Home page: http://www.foxtrot.co.uk





Subject: Re: Solar Eclipse
From: Michael Connell (mconnell@lineone.net)

> >But if you want to see the full thing, then it's off to Cornwall or
> >Devon (or France, Germany etc etc) with you, I'm afraid.
>
> Or the Channel Islands.
>
Or just shut your eyes and get the same effect anytime you wish.    :-)

Mike






Subject: 'Light' walking cottage
From: Nicholas Mayne (nick@bomayne.freeserve.co.uk)

Try a base of my cottage with 4 acres woodland in 100 acre wood in Suffolk.
Easy meadow type walks all around; also coastal; we always do short walks
when staying there. Look at web site http://www.bomayne.freeserve.co.uk/  We
are NOT a commercial organisation.
Enjoy yourself in Suffolk, regards to all, Nick Mayne 01767 261 407






Subject: Re: Cottage for sale in West Lakes
From: gwyn (postmaster@127.0.0.1)

On Wed, 30 Jun 1999 23:30:23 +0100, "Andrew Thompson"
<eebygum@tesco.net> wrote:

>3 bed mews cottage for sale in West Lakes at Haverigg Near Millom.
>
>Overlooks the Duddon Estuary and the River Lazy
>Balcony over the River Lazy
>Small village, 2 nice pubs
>
>Full details at : http://homepages.tesco.net/~eebygum/index.htm
>
>OIRO 48K excellent letting potential (3 cottages on same dev let out)
>
>email me for further details.
>

Don't want to put off potential buyers but isn't this the bad side of
the lakes near sellafield. I'd save your money
--
Gwyn,       58 Wainwrights and 1 Munro
I have done the knowledge of the lakes.
gwyn@gwyn-gwynrem.freeserve.co.uk (remove rem = spamtrap)
                     (put this in place of reply address)




Subject: Re: help needed finding the best campingsites in England / Scotland !
From: Tim Hall (timhall@freeuk.com)

On Thu, 01 Jul 1999 06:01:35 GMT, aba@xs4all.nl (Alrik Boonstra)
wrote:

>Hi (again),
>
>There was not much reaction on my last message. Maybe somebody can
>give me a a tip about a good camping-guide for England & Scotland.
>

Sorry, I was asleep.  There is an online guide, something like
http://www.handbooks.co.uk, but I could be wrong.
>Thanx,
>
>Alrik
>
>------
>
>
>Hi UK-Walkers,
>
>In 3 weeks I'll leave Holland and head for Scotland / England. Because
>we are walkers and campers I am looking for some good campingsites in
>the following areas :
>
>Lake District

Low Wray, National Trust.  Sited near the top end of Windermere. 01539
432810. Fairly civilised, but a bit of a walk to the pub.

Langdale, NTR again. Gets very busy in peak times, dead close to the
ODG (pub) 01539 437668.

Wadale, NT once more. 01946 726220. Close to the Wasdale Head Hotel.

<snip, not been there you see.>
>
>We like camping in a natural environment (near lakes, on mountains,
>great views, not to much caravans etc.) and we do not care much about
>facilities like swimmingpools, disco's etc. etc.
>

As far as I know, none of the sites above have any swimming pools or
discos.



Tim




Subject: Re: Campsites in Zermatt valley ?
From: Tim Hall (timhall@freeuk.com)

On Thu, 01 Jul 1999 17:33:13 +0100, Mike Green <mikey@cliffhanger.com>
wrote:

>The nearby supermarket was there last year too - but then, Zermatt's not that big.
>
>Nick Hill wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 29 Jun 1999 18:53:08 +0100, Mike Green <mikey@cliffhanger.com>
>> wrote:
>> >...The camp site just down from the railway station in Zermatt itself is fine and
>> >...I've always found space.
>>
>> I'd agree with that.  There's a nearby supermarket too (well there was
>> 10 years ago).  We also had loads of hotle guests proping up the
>> railings beside the railway - watching us go about our cooking etc.
>>
>> Nick.
>
If you go to Zermatt, go to the Brown Cow.  A salsa evening in the
downstairs bar changed my life.

Tim




Subject: Re: Ben Sgritheall
From: Adrian Marsh Tupper (adrian.tupper@zetnet.co.uk)

The message <377b90e4.0@news.nwl.ac.uk>
  from  "Dr Paul J Henney" <P.Henney@bgs.ac.uk> contains these words: 

> Now tell me why I should become a chartered accountant again ????

To vacate yor job for me :-)
-- 
Adrian Tupper, Edinburgh
adrian.tupper@zetnet.co.uk
McClassify's Munro Bagging on the Web
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/adriantupper/mindex.htm





Subject: Cheap Backpacking gear rec.'s ?
From: Mark Edward (mark.edward@diamondgeezer.co.uk)

Before i start phoning up likely looking adverts in the paper, i
thought i'd check here to see if anyone could recommend any cheap
sleeping bags, and/or 1-2 man tents, suitable for backpacking duties.

They would be for 2-3 season use, and so long as the bag stuffed down
pretty small, the tent is carryable for an averagely unfit person
(me), and as cheap as poss, i'd be happy.

Any brand, model, or legitimate cheapo source (online?)
recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

cheers,

Mark


Please remove the 'GEEZER' if replying by email




Subject: Re: WALKING, ACCOMMODATION,GOLF.SCOTLAND
From: Mark Edward (mark.edward@diamondgeezer.co.uk)

On Wed, 30 Jun 1999 23:18:32 +0100, Margot O'Brien
<Margot@croftcroy.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>HI,      WE OFFER.......  <snip>

> A STONE CIRCLE AND BURIAL CHAMBER IN THE REAR
>GARDEN.

eek! 
if i had a burial chamber in my garden i don't think i'd be SHOUTING
ABOUT IT.  ;-)

Though come to think of it you've got a perfect chance to attract
gullible tourists by re-enacting pagan rituals between courses during
dinner, hmmm, well it was just a thought.


Mark

Please remove the 'GEEZER' if replying by email




Subject: Re: Fundraising Team in Horse Crash
From: EARTHDWELLER (earthdweller@bigwig.net)

Jonathan J Quick <no@spam.here> wrote in message
news:01bec3fc$06033140$LocalHost@jjq...
> It's a sad fact that there are accidents and fatalities every year caused
> by motorists who won't slow down or allow sufficient room for horses, and
> especially by drivers who refuse to obey signals from riders because they
> "won't be told what to do by some stuck-up git on a horse". Even worse are
> drivers who go excessively fast on single-track lanes in rural areas like
> Dartmoor (where I live). Motorists should remember that the horse was here
> first, and broken horses, unlike broken cars, generally can't be repaired.

...but they can be eaten :-)

But seriously, I see the same problem every day. We have loads of stables
around Meltham and horses are ridden around the town from dawn onwards. The
riders here are very courteous, and I think that makes a difference, but
there are commercial travellers and idiot youths who are only interested in
A to B as fast as possible and don't even care for what is around them.
"Townies" often don't appreciate the problems that riders face, especially
when they have a second horse with them, but I don't think walkers are
generally a problem because they have encountered plenty of sheep, cows and
horses, accompanied or otherwise in all sorts of unexpected places, as they
travel to the start of their walks.

I am also in favour of extending the 40mph scheme, as seen in the New Forest
and elsewhere down south, to all unfenced roads in England and Wales apart
from designated "trunk" routes. This reduces roadkill and other accidents,
and also gives drivers the time to appreciate and, more importantly, get a
feel for their surroundings.

EARTHDWELLER

Email andrew_burley@bigwig.net
Personal web-site EARTHDWELLER - http://www.bigwig.net/earthdweller
Community web-site MELTHAM ON THE WEB - http://welcome.to/meltham







Subject: Re: UK-US information exchange wanted.
From: Michael Farthing (mf@cyclades.demon.co.uk)

In article <7lgdg5$4dt$3@usenet41.supernews.com>
           Mark@wilden16.freeserve.co.uk "Mark Wilden" writes:

> Alan Pemberton <spambox@Pemberton.u-net.com> wrote in message
> news:1du7njc.hrmx76x3deswN@p123.nas2.is5.u-net.net...
> > <walkbritain@home.com> wrote:
> >
> > You'll have no problem with UK currency, as it's boringly simple. There
> > are a hundred pennies in a pound and a pound is worth one hundred pence.
> > Full stop. The coins are called 1p, 2p, 5p, 10p, 20p, 50p, a pound and
> > two pounds.
> 
> It is _slightly_ difficult for an American to get used to 20p pieces instead
> of quarters.

It should be pointed out that Mark is speaking from distant memory as
he is no longer qualified to speak as an American.  We have now assimilated
him and he is an hononary Cumbrian (sub species of English).

-- 
Michael Farthing
cyclades
software house







Subject: Re: The ULTIMATE personal safety device for people and pets!
From: Paul Lydon (paul@palydon.demon.co.uk.antispam)


Alan White wrote in message <377bc6b1.36003842@news.dial.pipex.com>...
>On Thu, 1 Jul 1999 14:34:34 -0400, "Chas Richardson"
><Chas.Richardson@FlasherWeb.com> wrote:
>
>>...
>>The FLASHER booth was situated in the middle of "tent city", which
consisted
>>of approx. 300 tents.  One camper, who had bought a FLASHER at a previous
>>event had placed his FLASHER on top of his tent so that he and his wife
>>could easily spot their tent (as well as their friends).  Two days into
the
>>event, when we set up our booth, roughly 20 people came up to buy a
FLASHER,
>>making a direct recference to the one tent which FLASHER occupied
throughout
>>the evening hours.
>>...
>
>Twenty people with flashers on their tents must:-
>
>a) have made it quite difficult for those twenty to locate their
>tents,
>
>b) have infuriated everybody around them trying to get to sleep.
>


Not to mention the probable damage caused by having some pervert in a dirty
mac stood on your tent!

;-)

*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Paul Lydon
InterServe Global Solutions
Nottingham, UK
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*







Subject: Re: Fundraising Team in Horse Crash
From: Gavin Whittaker (ah05@holyrood.ed.ac.uk)

Jonathan J Quick (no@spam.here) wrote:

: Motorists should remember that the horse was here
: first, and broken horses, unlike broken cars, generally can't be repaired.

   As my driving instructor told me some years ago: People and horses
are on the road by right, motorised vehicles are there by licence.
 
  Gavin

*****************************************************************************
Dr. A.G. Whittaker - Dept. of Chemistry, King's buildings, West Mains
		     Rd., Edinburgh.  EH9 3JJ.                               
                     Tel: 0131 6504800.  Fax: 0131 6504743.             
                     email: ah05@holyrood.ed.ac.uk                      
*****************************************************************************





Subject: Re: GPS
From: Paul Brooks (paul.brooks@dial.pipex.com)

Dr David McLean <D.McLean@doc.mmu.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:377B588C.1DF2746C@doc.mmu.ac.uk...
> They also come into their own for getting off mountains when the clag is
in
> (and your map is getting close to useless).  Marking tracks for descent
routes,
> when you can see where you are going, takes very little time and could
> potentially be life saving when you've completed that Scottish Winter
climb to
> find that the top is clagged in and its blowing a hooley!!
>
I hate to get drawn in to yet another boring GPS v map & compass slanging
match, but this is bloody dangerous. Your GPS is not accurate enough to keep
you clear of the dangers on Ben Nevis summit (or many other places). Learn
the descent route and you only need your compass and competence to get off
safely.

--
Paul Brooks
Paul.Brooks@dial.pipex.com






Subject: Re: Campsites in Zermatt valley ?
From: Andy Shaw (andys@nospamsco.com)

If in Zermatt, a visit to the North Wall Bar is always a good idea. Cheapish
food, big screen TV showing climbing vids, good beer and the chance to talk
loudly about your days exploits with a good chance that the people there
will know what you are talking about (though they may not be impressed),
what more could you want?

Andy







Subject: Re: WTD: Garmin GPS III Plus
From: Paul Churchley (paul@willowsoft.co.uk)

Thanks for those who replied (through both news and email).

I have contacted Garmin (UK) who say that the III+ is due for UK release
in August at a price of 390ukp + VAT without any CDROM upgrades!!!

This is far more than I was prepared to spend and so I have decided to
buy a III at 240ukp including VAT from a shop in the Tottenham Court
Road, London.

I will keep this for a year or so and upgrade then if I feel it is worth
it.

Thanks again

Paul



In article <3779C93E.6210@ecs.soton.ac.uk.nojunk>, Tim Forcer
<tmf@ecs.soton.ac.uk.nojunk> writes
>Paul Churchley wrote:
>> 
>> Garmin GPS III Plus Wanted
>> 
>> New or used
>> 
>> This is the one with upgradable maps
>> 
>> If used - must be complete with all cables and instructions
>> and have remaining guarantee.
>
>The GPS III+ for Europe won't be on sale until July/August.  The only
>ones out there at the moment are the "Americas" version.  For various
>reasons, I recommend waiting for the European one, although (inevitably)
>the number of dollars to buy an Americas III+ is very similar to the
>number of pounds to buy a European one.
>
>Many manfuacturers will not honour warranties/guarantees except with the
>original purchaser.  In UK, I believe the original purchaser cannot
>transfer rights under Sale of Goods (Implied Terms) Act (etc) when
>selling second hand, although these can be transferred as part of a gift
>when the item was purchased for giving.
>
>I'm not sure the III+ internal map is "upgradeable", but you can
>download maps into it to provide extra detail.  Currently, only Garmin
>sell the CD-ROMs of such maps (at a fair old price), and the formats
>(and other aspects) are proprietary so no third-party products are
>likely.  So far, no one has cracked this code, so you can't scan in your
>own map and download it.
>
>> Please email.
>
>Please expect to see responses to posts on the groups.  This is posted
>so others who might be interested can see the info.
>
>I recommend <news:sci.geo.satellite-nav> as a (high-traffic) newsgroup
>overflowing with GPS info - and possibly more use as a single group for
>this sort of thing than the collection of cross-posted groups above. 
>And a very good site, particularly for info on GPSIII+ and similar
>products is <http://joe.mehaffey.com/>
>

-- 
Paul Churchley                           MCP VB6 (Desktop Apps)
                                         Sun Certified Java Programmer
Email:  paul@willowsoft.co.uk
or      Paul.Churchley@Tesco.net        
WWW:    http://www.willowsoft.co.uk
ICQ#    36396263




Subject: Re: Fundraising Team in Horse Crash
From: Jonathan J Quick (no@spam.here)

Gavin Whittaker <ah05@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote in article
<7lhvdl$8ju$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>...
> 
> : Motorists should remember that the horse was here
> : first, and broken horses, unlike broken cars, generally can't be
repaired.
>    As my driving instructor told me some years ago: People and horses
> are on the road by right, motorised vehicles are there by licence.

I can see a Rights Of Way discussion approaching! Actually for horses on
roads, there ought to be some legal requirement for riders to take a
proficiency test and to have insurance before using roads (same goes for
cyclists).

Incidentally as a horserider whose recently started reasonably serious
walking I now appreciate to some extent why so many walkers complain about
horses churning up paths, although I don't think the problem's quite as bad
as some make out...

JJ.

-- 
Email: jjquick@foxtrot.co.uk
Home page: http://www.foxtrot.co.uk





Subject: Re: GPS
From: Philip Shore (pshore@nortelnetworks.comnospam)



Paul Brooks wrote:

> I hate to get drawn in to yet another boring GPS v map & compass slanging
> match, but this is bloody dangerous. Your GPS is not accurate enough to keep
> you clear of the dangers on Ben Nevis summit (or many other places). Learn
> the descent route and you only need your compass and competence to get off
> safely.

Why do so many people think that GPS users are going to follow it that
closely ?!?

People do look where they are going. If you can't see where you are
going to put your feet then you are in trouble - probably best to stay
put. 

Phil.




Subject: Out of Office AutoReply: Daily Summary: uk.rec.walking 1/1
From: Saunders, Howard (howard.saunders@cmg-europe.com)

Sorry, but I'm out of the office on Friday 2nd July & Monday 5th July.
I'll be back in the office again Tuesday 6th July.
Regards
Howard Saunders





Subject: Re: Fundraising Team in Horse Crash
From: EARTHDWELLER (earthdweller@bigwig.net)

Jonathan J Quick <no@spam.here> wrote in message
news:01bec479$22008960$LocalHost@jjq...
> Incidentally as a horserider whose recently started reasonably serious
> walking I now appreciate to some extent why so many walkers complain about
> horses churning up paths, although I don't think the problem's quite as
bad
> as some make out...
I think for the most part a heavily used track will be firmer under foot for
walkers if it is used regularly by horses as well. Horses seem to be good at
repairing damage from excess walking boots. I think the only real problems
are at changes of level, where the weight of a horse can break up the edge
of a bank or a step cut in to the bank quicker than a herd of walkers can
do.

EARTHDWELLER

Email andrew_burley@bigwig.net
Personal web-site EARTHDWELLER - http://www.bigwig.net/earthdweller
Community web-site MELTHAM ON THE WEB - http://welcome.to/meltham
ULY Descriptor - '64 M Y1- L+ U U-- KQ C-- c-- !B p-- Sh+ s-
FC(Millmoor,Meltham) !S R(HD7) I++ !H






Subject: Re: Cheap Backpacking gear rec.'s ?
From: Dicky (corbettr@dircon.co.uk)

Tents
Have a look at Blacks Excel which is a 1 and 1/2 man tent, 2.7kg, very
excellent at 106.00 inc VAT.

Richard Corbett

Mark Edward <mark.edward@diamondGEEZER.co.uk> wrote in message
news:377bf43f.17269580@news.freeserve.net...
> Before i start phoning up likely looking adverts in the paper, i
> thought i'd check here to see if anyone could recommend any cheap
> sleeping bags, and/or 1-2 man tents, suitable for backpacking duties.
>
> They would be for 2-3 season use, and so long as the bag stuffed down
> pretty small, the tent is carryable for an averagely unfit person
> (me), and as cheap as poss, i'd be happy.
>
> Any brand, model, or legitimate cheapo source (online?)
> recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
>
> cheers,
>
> Mark
>
>
> Please remove the 'GEEZER' if replying by email






Subject: Re: The ULTIMATE personal safety device for people and pets!
From: Dean Dunn (dean.dunn@dial.pipex.com)

hmm..great another must have gadget to go with the GPS, Mobile Phone and god
knows what else people carry on the hills today.

Oh well...I suppose that with all that stuff in your rucksack you'll at
least be fit if you can haul it all over the fells lol!

Regards,
Dean








Subject: Re: Cheap Backpacking gear rec.'s ?
From: John A (john@joab.x.globalnet.co.uk)

On Thu, 01 Jul 1999 23:26:30 GMT, mark.edward@diamondGEEZER.co.uk
(Mark Edward) wrote:


>
>Any brand, model, or legitimate cheapo source (online?)
>recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
>
Try Rock and Run's clearance list at
http://www.eclimb.com/rr/pl/cleardoc.html . Good deals on Mountain
Equipment down sleeping bags - Glacier 750 at 130 should be more than
adequate (thinking of buying one myself). 

 Also try "Jim's mountaineering links" at
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/6863/index.html for links to
other retailers. (For some reason I can't get to this one with
Internet Explorer 5 but it works fine with Netscape.)

John A




Subject: Walking in Italy - Lake Como
From: Dean Dunn (dean.dunn@dial.pipex.com)

Hi All,

I'm off to Lake Como for a couple of weeks hols...

Anyone ever walked there before? I've got a guide book but wondered if
anyone had any suggestions.

I prefer mountain routes, being up high, ridges and scrambly stuff..


Thanks,

Dean







Subject: Re: Fundraising Team in Horse Crash
From: Jonathan J Quick (no@spam.here)

EARTHDWELLER <earthdweller@bigwig.net> wrote in article
<7lic5c$hun$1@news1.cableinet.co.uk>...
>
> I think for the most part a heavily used track will be firmer under foot
for
> walkers if it is used regularly by horses as well. Horses seem to be good
at
> repairing damage from excess walking boots. I think the only real
problems
> are at changes of level, where the weight of a horse can break up the
edge
> of a bank or a step cut in to the bank quicker than a herd of walkers can
> do.

Depends on the way the track's used by riders... if it's just used in walk
or trot the horses' weight is evenly distributed and the hooves hit the
ground fairly flat, if a track is used to canter or gallop on the weight is
concentrated (particularly in canter) and the hooves strike the ground at
more of an angle, churning up the ground pretty quickly. Of course gallop
tracks tend to get evened out by flattened walkers...

JJ.

-- 
Email: jjquick@foxtrot.co.uk
Home page: http://www.foxtrot.co.uk





Subject: Re: Ben Sgritheall
From: Gavin Whittaker (ah05@holyrood.ed.ac.uk)

Andy Johnston (johnstan@bp.com) wrote:
: Dr Paul J Henney <P.Henney@bgs.ac.uk> wrote in article

: > Now tell me why I should become a chartered accountant again ????

: 4 bedroomed detached, BMW, rolex, blonde wife, pots of cash in the bank

  I don't know why, but these descriptions remind me of several Tory
ex-MPs.  It's just not an attractive proposition, I'm afraid...






Subject: Re: Wanted: South Downs OS Guide
From:  (hounddog888@my-deja.com)

Try this excellent South Downs circular walk.

Start from East Dean with a fortifying pint at the Tiger pub on the village
green, walk SW across the hills to the coast, along the Seven Sisters to
Cuckmere River, pausing at the beach for a swim.  Head north up the river to
Exceat Bridge, then up a steep path to West Dean and back through Friston
Forest to East Dean.

Celebrate with another pint at the Tiger.



Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.




Subject: Re: Out of Office AutoReply: Daily Summary: uk.rec.walking 1/1
From: Chris Gilbert (chris.gilbert@ffs.nottingham.ac.uk)

"Saunders, Howard" wrote:

>Sorry, but I'm out of the office on Friday 2nd July & Monday 5th July.
>I'll be back in the office again Tuesday 6th July.
>Regards
>Howard Saunders

Surreal. A bit like being rung up by an answerphone. A pro-active approach to 
telling everyone you're not in.

Chris

--
=========================================
 Leave sooner, drive slower, live longer
=========================================
Note: There is no FFS in my email address




Subject: Re: Guided Walks France???
From:  (hounddog888@my-deja.com)

Ramblers Holidays 01707 331133
Sherpa Expeditions 0181-577 2717
Pyrenees Adventures 01473 621498
Inntravel 01653 628862



Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.




Subject: Walking in uk for a yank
From: BurtonBooks (burtonbooks@tesco.net)

Why not try http://www.oban-org.co.uk/greatwalks for the west highland way
or the isle of mull. If you go for the west highland way (and I can
recommend it) use Travelight to save on carriage.-- john b






Subject: Re: walking in uk for yank
From: BurtonBooks (burtonbooks@tesco.net)


Gammara2 wrote in message <19990630073938.11206.00000027@ng-xb1.aol.com>...
>
>hi folks- i am a fit 47 yr old american, i have walked about 150 miles of
the
>appallachian trail in georgia and north carolina. i am interested in a
pleasant
>amble with my wife, with pretty scenery, and the ability to stop at a guest
>house or modest accom every night for a week. i have no interest in an
>organized tour and would like to walk between 8-15 miles/day. a nice spot
for a
>picnic lunch bought along the way would be nice also ie i dont want to
carry a
>lot- any suggestions? please respond to my email address- gammara2@aol.com
>jim






Subject: Re: walking in uk for yank
From:  (walkbritain@home.com)

Try the Cotswold way.  Beautiful landscape, small villages with places
to eat and stay over night.  I suggest the book published by aerofilms
guides:  the Cotswold way. Or you might look at the borders of
Scotland.  There are several good trails around Melrose and the Tweed.

Gammara2 wrote:
> 
> hi folks- i am a fit 47 yr old american, i have walked about 150 miles of the
> appallachian trail in georgia and north carolina. i am interested in a pleasant
> amble with my wife, with pretty scenery, and the ability to stop at a guest
> house or modest accom every night for a week. i have no interest in an
> organized tour and would like to walk between 8-15 miles/day. a nice spot for a
> picnic lunch bought along the way would be nice also ie i dont want to carry a
> lot- any suggestions? please respond to my email address- gammara2@aol.com
> jim




Subject: Re: ME Annurpurna Down JKT
From: Matt Schofield (mattsc@sco.deletethisbit.com)


James Grove wrote:
> 
>         For Sale:
> 
>         Mountain Equipment Annurpurna Dryloft Down Jacket.
> 
> Brand New Never Used
> Colour: Black
> Size: Large
> 
> Price 110.
> 

S'gettin cheaper. Wasn't it 240 quid last month? By the time somebody
buys it the next ice age will have started and you'll want to hang onto
it.

Terar

Matt Schofield
-- 
Return email address junked




Subject: Re: 101 Uses for a GPS
From: Dave Cox (cox@cableinetnospam.co.uk)

101) - proving to your wife we are where I said we are on the map.

--

Coxie, the Scouse Manc
Remove nospam from my address to reply
ICQ 21559285
dacox@cableinet.nospamco.uk

Tim Forcer wrote in message <377B6612.704@ecs.soton.ac.uk.nojunk>...
>John Dawson wrote:
>>
>> Tim Forcer wrote:
>>
>> >26.  (For Merkins)
>>
>> I had to look up this word in the OED. It says a Merkin is an
>> artificial vagina or pubic wig ;-)
>
>Sounds about right?  (Ducks)
>
>--
>Tim Forcer               tmf@ecs.soton.ac.uk
>The University of Southampton, UK
>
>The University is not responsible for my opinions






Subject: Re: Halls Fell Ridge, Blencathra
From: Mike (mpetrs@cleatsglobalnet.co.uk)

On this day Thu, 1 Jul 1999 10:20:07 GMT, Gareth Rees
<garethr@cre.canon.co.uk> hammered out this message and gave forth this
offering:

 <snip>
>Given the popularity of these routes, it looks to me as though they're
>not nearly as dangerous as is sometimes claimed.
>
>-- 
>Gareth Rees

I agree. IMO, routes like these are only a danger relative to the standard
of the experience of people who use them. To a  hardened
walker/scrambler/climber, a walk on Crib Goch or Striding Edge is not much
more than a stroll.
In many cases it is us mere humans who are the dangerous ones :-)

When I see posts requesting  "which a way up and down?  How far actually is
it?  How long will it me?  Will children be able to do it?     I just
shudder.

Don't get me wrong, I am glad the questions are asked, as it might avoid an
incident, but it gives me a  gut feeling that they are not ready to venture
into some areas without a more experienced partener by their side. 
Reading the  replies posted back regarding Halls Fell, Striding and Swirral
Edges, if I was not familiar with the routes, I think I would  be none the
wiser and a little confused.

Perhaps it is these sort of questions that URC should not be drawn into
unless we know the  experience of the person making the enquiry, thus
enabling us to give an idea of the difficulties it might present relative to
their experience.

Mike

Remove "cleats" before useing Email 




Subject: Re: Cottage for sale in West Lakes
From: Stuart Rae (stu@easynet.co.uk)

gwyn wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 30 Jun 1999 23:30:23 +0100, "Andrew Thompson"
> <eebygum@tesco.net> wrote:
> 
> >3 bed mews cottage for sale in West Lakes at Haverigg Near Millom.
> >
> >Overlooks the Duddon Estuary and the River Lazy
> >Balcony over the River Lazy
> >Small village, 2 nice pubs

> 
> Don't want to put off potential buyers but isn't this the bad side of
> the lakes near sellafield. I'd save your money
> --

But also within easy reach of the best of the Lake District - i.e.
Wasdale & Eskdale.

Stuart Rae

http://www.stu.easynet.co.uk





Subject: Re: UK-US information exchange wanted.
From: Mark Wilden (mark@wilden16.freeserve.co.uk)

Michael Farthing <mf@cyclades.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:930903371snz@cyclades.demon.co.uk...
>
> It should be pointed out that Mark is speaking from distant memory as
> he is no longer qualified to speak as an American.

I never have been, actually, despite having spent most of my life there (I'm
Canadian). Now I have a British passport, for the first time in my life I'm
actually entitled to vote in the country in which I live.

> We have now assimilated
> him and he is an honorary Cumbrian (sub species of English).

I'm honoured by that honorarium. I think the Cumbrian sub species is super!










Subject: Re: GPS n'all that
From: Mark Wilden (mark@wilden16.freeserve.co.uk)

Gordon Harris <Gordon1@g3snx.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:RzhEODAluye3Ew0i@g3snx.demon.co.uk...
> In article <2P0+TbBZrqe3EwTQ@thequiff.demon.co.uk>, Martin Richardson
> <martinr@thequiff.demon.co.uk> writes
> >
> Or 'I am spending 3 months in Milton Keynes, does anyone know of any
> walks in the area'.
>
> Much more fun to get the map and plan yer own walks.

For you, yes. For me, sometimes. Nevertheless, if you have only limited
time, it makes sense to ask for advice (and in fact that's one of the main
benefits of this very newsgroup!).

Rather hard to tell from a map where there'll be a stunning view.






Subject: A Better use for Satellites
From: Bagpuize (bagpuize@dial.pipex.com)

Check out this web site:

Satellite pictures of the UK - really useful for forecasting

http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/pub/sat-images/D2.JPG
http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/pub/sat-images/C2D.JPG
http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/pub/sat-images/C02.JPG
http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/pub/sat-images/E2.JPG

More useful than GPS! :-)

Bagpuize






Subject: Re: Guided Walks France???
From: Richard Erlebach (wastebin@highspy.demon.co.uk)

In article <zeTnfLAVW6e3EwzU@namron.demon.co.uk>, Peter Norman
<Peter@namron.demon.co.uk> writes
>Anyone got personal recommendation for companies organising guided walks
>in France Other than HF or RH

In May we had a walking holiday with Pyrenees Adventures which is a
small company with a house in the Pays Basque in south west France.  It
was a good holiday (despite the weather being rather wet); the group all
got on well and went at a compatible pace.  The walking guide was
excellent.  See http://www.pyradv.demon.co.uk for more information.
They advertise in Australia as well (5 of the party of 9 were from down
under) so expect some aussies.

They take you in a minibus to the start of a circular walk each day.
The packed lunches are "tupperware" boxes of things like pasta salad,
plus fresh French bread and fruit.  The house is a converted Basque
farmhouse and is comfortable and they employ a cook.

What more do you want to know?

-- 
Richard Erlebach




Subject: Norway in a nutshell, a report of a backpacking tour by Joke van Lith (NL)
From: Rob (rtc@worldonline.nl)

Norway in a nutshell, a backpacking tour around Hardangerjokulen, September
1998

Where do you take friends who have never been to Norway? Around
Hardangerjokulen of course. This glacier lies South of Finse and North of
the Hardangervidda. So at the end of August 1998 the four of us took of to
Norway: Wim, Joke, Ron and Nandy, together with our backpacks ranging from
17 till 23 kilo's.

A report by Joke van Lith on the RTC homepage at URL:
http://callisto.worldonline.nl/~rtc/norway.html

RTC backpacking club: http://welcome.to/rtc
The Netherlands







Subject: Skye Campsites
From: Marty (marty@geist.demon.co.uk)

I apologise if this has been asked before.

Which is better Glenbrittle or Sligachan? What are the facillities like? any
info would be helpful.

Thanks.






Subject: Re: Solar Eclipse
From: David Cantrell (nukeemup@thepentagon.com)

On Thu, 01 Jul 1999 09:31:44 +0000, Tony Buckley
<a.g.buckley@dl.ac.uk> said:

>           You could always go to Guernsey and hire a boat, but that
>would have little to do with uk.rec.walking.

Almost as little to do with walking as your going on about how to look
at the silly thing in <3779E123.81EDC3C7@dl.ac.uk> :-)

If I promise to walk to the pier and not get a cab would that count?

-- 
David Cantrell, part-time Unix/perl/SQL/java techie
                full-time chef/musician/homebrewer
                http://www.ThePentagon.com/NukeEmUp




Subject: Re: Skye Campsites
From: Peter Jones (peter.a.jones@tesco.net)

Glenbrittle - get a fire going on the beach, bottle of whisky - who needs a
pub?

Pete's Website - http://homepages.tesco.net/~Peter.A.Jones/






Subject: litter in the Lakes
From: Peter Jones (peter.a.jones@tesco.net)

There are two rituals I carry out as a matter of routine. First, I run up
Blencathra once a week without fail - it's an article of faith, a wonderful
way to spend an hour on a clear evening. The second (and more onerous) task
is to top out on Scafell Pike once a month. Why? God knows, but there it is.
I've resigned myself to picking up a few cans or sweet wrappers each time I
do this trip but today, Friday July 2nd, I was stunned by the mountain of
shit on top of England's highest mountain - a wasteland of coke cans and
decaying banana skins. It was fucking unbelievable, especially when you
consider that the Wasdale Mountain Rescue boys carried down a couple of bin
bags of shite within the last fortnight. I packed as much crap as I could
into a 5 litre bum bag for the journey back.

Now, I long ago got used to the fact that there is a minority (?) of eejits
who appear not to care what rubbish they drop in the more beautiful parts of
their country. However, there are two points here that I can't fathom.
First, much of the trash was rolled up and jammed beneath stones - surely
this takes more effort than simply putting it into your rucsac and carrying
it off the hill? Second, and perhaps more disturbing, was the fact that
there were a whole bunch of people on the summit who seemed quite happy to
sit there surrounded by other peoples' crap and, indeed, seemed rather
puzzled that this scowling hippy type was walking around picking it up. Has
our national sense of aesthetics become so debased that we're willing to put
up with this kind of atrocity?

The litter problem appears to have evaporated elsewhere in the Lakes, but
continues to be a problem on the Pike. I attribute this to two factors -
youth groups being 'educated' into the ways of the countryside, and
FHM-reading townie twats in search of a male bonding experience. In the
former case, why aren't the group leaders paying proper attention to the
antics of the scum they are nominally in charge of? In the latter
instance....ah, words fail me.......piss off back to Blackpool you bastards.

Pete's Website - http://homepages.tesco.net/~Peter.A.Jones/






Subject: Re: Mull ferries
From: Peter Jones (peter.a.jones@tesco.net)

just go to the online ferry timetables -

    http://www.a2btravel.com/ferry.html

Pete's Website - http://homepages.tesco.net/~Peter.A.Jones/






Subject: Re: Which GPS?
From: Peter Jones (peter.a.jones@tesco.net)

alternatively, you can get a compass for a tenner you sad techies

Pete's Website - http://homepages.tesco.net/~Peter.A.Jones/






Subject: Sun protection from ordinary clothes
From: Kevin West (kwest@ryde.prestel.co.uk)

I read/heard/saw somewhere that ordinary clothes such as poly-cotton
shirts do not actually give much protection against the damaging
effects of the sun.  Does anyone have any information on this topic.
Kev




Subject: Re: Campsite recommendations near Cannich
From: Graham Ingram (graham@terregles.freeserve.co.uk)


Jim Willsher wrote in message <377d06ec.4873277@news.scotland.net>...
>Can anyone recommend a campsite near to Cannich / Drumnadrochit /
>InverMoriston? I am hoping to climb the Mullardochs later this year
>{Snip}


Jim

There is a campsite in Cannich itself which is actually and excellent site
and one of the cheapest around ( 4.80) for a two man tent. It has good
facilities on site and a pub and hotel within 5 mins walk.  The site also
has a Youth Hostel and a bunkhouse next to it with beds from 5 per person
per night.  we ( my son and myself) just did this trip last Sunday. We
camped at Cannich on the Saturday night ( be warned full midge repellant and
mosi net required). we left the site at 8 a.m. Sunday and drove 20 minutes
to Mullardoch Dam where we had arranged to get the ferry ( 6 seated motor
boat) to the end of the loch. The ferry is run by Carl who lives at Benula
Lodge next to the dam and can be contacted on 01456 415347. It costs  25
for up to 3 passengers or 7 a head for 4 to 6.  The trip up the loch takes
45 minutes saving around six mile 3 hour hike along rough ground.  We
started walking at 9:15 a.m and the rain started at 9:20 a.m. It rained
heavily most of the day with low cloud and poor visibility but there is no
real navigation problem with a footpath / track going the whole way round.
we arrived back at the dam at 5 p.m. or just under 8 hours on the hill.
Fairly easy going most of the way but extremely boggy on the descent and
return to the dam. One peculiar point of interest is the half eaten
carcasses of three sheep lying on the path to An Socach all within the first
mile of walking. ( handy if you forget the sandwiches :-).
Whatever way you do it have a good one

Regards
Graham






Subject: Harvesting rain water from plants
From: Kevin West (kwest@ryde.prestel.co.uk)

It occurred to me that a way of getting water if desperate 
assuming you have no large container to collect it in would be
to "harvest" it from rain soaked plants using the very absorbent
pack towels.  Other than pesticides/herbicides are there any reason 
why this would not be safe.
Kev




Subject: Offa's Dyke Path - fantastic
From: Kevin West (kwest@ryde.prestel.co.uk)

I have just finished this fantastic walk and would like to
thank all contributors for advice.  I thoroughly recommend it as
an interesting mixture of all landscapes/terrains.
The accomodation guide provided by the OD Asscn is invaluable.
Kev




Subject: Re: The ULTIMATE personal safety device for people and pets!
From: Phil Cook (phil@p-t-cook.nukeallspamfreeserve.co.uk)

>
>I used to have a festival setup with an ex-military folding radio
aerial and
>a string of LEDs up it. Not too difficult to locate at all, as it was
higher
>than everybody else's :-) Not so good for lightening strikes I
suppose...
>
>EARTHDWELLER
>
Does this work when you're stoned out of your mind?






Subject: Re: litter in the Lakes
From: Jhimmy (tarill@nayspamfreeuk.com)

I remember a few years ago a group of youths sitting near the Dixon memorial
on Helvellyn's Striding Edge, throwing away all sorts of food to watch it
fall, float, stumble, or whatever.   This is no place for any confrontation.
At Bad Step I started to talk to one the the same group of lads, who said
they're doing this walk for charity.  He couldn't stand the mountains and
all the sheep shite and country yokels.

"Nar, I wont be doing this again, mate" He said, "could have stayed in the
pub!"

Since then, I've notice a huge increase in Charity climbs that bring all
sorts of unfit, unprepared, and unwelcome people to the hills.

Stick to bungee jumping, Please!

Jhimmy.










Subject: Re: ME Annurpurna Down JKT
From: Peter Jones (peter.a.jones@tesco.net)

Is that the Matt who joined BW Mud when I did?

Pete's Website - http://homepages.tesco.net/~Peter.A.Jones/






Subject: Re: litter in the Lakes
From: Paul Upham (paul.upham@btinternet.com)


>is to top out on Scafell Pike once a month. Why? God knows, but there it
is.
>I've resigned myself to picking up a few cans or sweet wrappers each time I
>do this trip but today, Friday July 2nd, I was stunned by the mountain of
>shit on top of England's highest mountain - a wasteland of coke cans and
>decaying banana skins. It was fucking unbelievable, especially when you
>consider that the Wasdale Mountain Rescue boys carried down a couple of bin
>bags of shite within the last fortnight. I packed as much crap as I could
>into a 5 litre bum bag for the journey back.



Totally agree - there is NO reason for ANYONE to leave any rubbish, except
in bins provided. On mountains, all rubbish should be taken home. It seems
to come in cycles, I go for months without seeing too much rubbish on the
hills, then seem to be wading through the stuff.

Hopefully one person won't ever leave rubbish lying around again - approx 15
years ago, I was leading a group somewhere - I cannot remember where - one
of the teenagers in the group was drinking a can of squash. Out of the
corner of my eye, I saw him through the can into a bush. I saod nothing.
After about 1/4 to 1/2 mile, I asked him where the can was - the reply was
that it was in his rucksack. I asked to see it - he then realised he was on
a loser and admitted to throwing it. I sat the group down and told him we
would wait whilst he brought me the can!

Hopefully, he learnt his lesson from that. Probably had enough of walking
and now doesnt bother doing anything!

Regards

Paul






Subject: Re: Harvesting rain water from plants
From: Peter Jones (peter.a.jones@tesco.net)

Why would you be desperate for water in a rain soaked environment hmmm? You
don't own a GPS gizmo as well do you....?

Pete's Website - http://homepages.tesco.net/~Peter.A.Jones/






Subject: Re: help needed finding the best campingsites in England / Scotland !
From: Peter Jones (peter.a.jones@tesco.net)

West Coast of Scotland -

Glencoe - camp rough by the Kingshouse Hotel or Clachaig Inn, or anywhere
down Glen Etive. The Red Squirrel campsite halfway between the Clachaig Inn
and Glencoe Village is OK if you don't mind mice chewing their way into your
tent - otherwise use the posh campsite on the other side of the valley.

Torridon - the site by the Youth Hostel is good and no-one ever seems to
come for money (I've been there 5 times and not paid once!) - or camp on the
green above Shieldaig and watch the whales blowing out in the bay.....

Pete's Website - http://homepages.tesco.net/~Peter.A.Jones/scotland.htm






Subject: Re: Hamish Brown
From: Duncan Gray (duncan@duncolm.freeserve.co.uk)

I've just checked  www.mountainbooks.co.uk.  They have a copy in their
second hand list.

Duncan Gray
www.duncolm.freeserve.co.uk/links.html
100+ web links for those who think "vertically challenged" means a good days
walk.

john david myers wrote in message <7lj3v4$rv6$8@gxsn.com>...
>Well ive tried everywhere....Id like a copy of Hamishes Groats end
>Walk......cant sem to find one.Anyone know the publisher, and if its now
out
>of print.
>thanks








Subject: Re: Hamish Brown
From: john david myers (jdmyers@globalnet.co.uk)

thanks duncan ill try that
jdm

Duncan Gray <duncan@duncolm.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7lj9kb$7nj$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk...
> I've just checked  www.mountainbooks.co.uk.  They have a copy in their
> second hand list.
>
> Duncan Gray
> www.duncolm.freeserve.co.uk/links.html
> 100+ web links for those who think "vertically challenged" means a good
days
> walk.
>
> john david myers wrote in message <7lj3v4$rv6$8@gxsn.com>...
> >Well ive tried everywhere....Id like a copy of Hamishes Groats end
> >Walk......cant sem to find one.Anyone know the publisher, and if its now
> out
> >of print.
> >thanks
>
>
>
>






Subject: Re: Which GPS?
From: Michael Painter (mpainter@inreach.com)


Peter Jones <Peter.A.Jones@tesco.net> wrote in message
news:7lj51u$4g2$3@barcode.tesco.net...

> alternatively, you can get a compass for a tenner you sad techies
Who needs a high tech compass? But if you do a nail can be magnitized quite
easily with just a hammer.
A stick and the sun cost nothing. High tech says buy a US$ 1.50 watch when
they give them out at a fast food chain.

A real man always knows wher he is anyway. (This excludes me and 99.9
percent of the people I've taught underwater navagation to.)

>






Subject: Re: Harvesting rain water from plants
From: Michael Painter (mpainter@inreach.com)

Digging a wide shallow cone shaped hole, lining it with plastic and placing
a can or something at the bottom is a survival technique used to collect dew
in desert environments.
You would not need the hole in rain country. The trick would be to collect
the water *before* it stopped raining, rather than waiting for it to stop,
then sopping it up.
Kevin West <kwest@ryde.prestel.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7lj464$mm1$1@phys-ma.sol.co.uk...
> It occurred to me that a way of getting water if desperate
> assuming you have no large container to collect it in would be
> to "harvest" it from rain soaked plants using the very absorbent
> pack towels.  Other than pesticides/herbicides are there any reason
> why this would not be safe.
> Kev






Subject: Re: 101 Uses for a GPS
From: Martin Richardson (martinr@thequiff.demon.co.uk)

In article <7lis39$1og$4@news1.cableinet.co.uk>, Dave Cox
<cox@cableinetnospam.co.uk> writes
>101) - proving to your wife we are where I said we are on the map.
>

102 Finding the spot again where you buried your wife.

Welcome to the (~uiff Woodsave  

Martin Richardson               martinr@thequiff.demon.co.uk







Subject: Re: Norway in a nutshell, a report of a backpacking tour by Joke van Lith (NL)
From: Alan White (alan.lesley@dial.pipex.com)

On Fri, 2 Jul 1999 20:28:52 +0200, "Rob" <rtc@worldonline.nl> wrote:

>Norway in a nutshell, a backpacking tour around Hardangerjokulen, September
>1998
>
>Where do you take friends who have never been to Norway? Around
>Hardangerjokulen of course. This glacier lies South of Finse and North of
>the Hardangervidda. So at the end of August 1998 the four of us took of to
>Norway: Wim, Joke, Ron and Nandy, together with our backpacks ranging from
>17 till 23 kilo's.
>
>A report by Joke van Lith on the RTC homepage at URL:
>http://callisto.worldonline.nl/~rtc/norway.html
>

This brought back happy memories of summer 1993 when we walked across
the Hardangervidda from Finse to Haukelisater.

Great stuff.

-- 
Alan White,
in England's Lake District.
http://ds.dial.pipex.com/alan.lesley/




Subject: Re: Sun protection from ordinary clothes
From: EARTHDWELLER (earthdweller@bigwig.net)

Kevin West <kwest@ryde.prestel.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7lj3vj$mi8$1@phys-ma.sol.co.uk...
> I read/heard/saw somewhere that ordinary clothes such as poly-cotton
> shirts do not actually give much protection against the damaging
> effects of the sun.  Does anyone have any information on this topic.
Neither do some base layers. I got fried in my Helly top when walking in
Scotland a couple of years ago. I had never really thought about it before,
but I learned an uncomfortable lesson.

EARTHDWELLER

Email andrew_burley@bigwig.net
Personal web-site EARTHDWELLER - http://www.bigwig.net/earthdweller
Community web-site MELTHAM ON THE WEB - http://welcome.to/meltham







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To:	kal1@lineone.net
Subject:	Daily Digest: uk.rec.walking 2/2


Subject: Re: Campsite recommendations near Cannich
From: EARTHDWELLER (earthdweller@bigwig.net)

Jim Willsher <jim@willsher.sol.co.uk> wrote in message
news:377d06ec.4873277@news.scotland.net...
> Can anyone recommend a campsite near to Cannich / Drumnadrochit /
> InverMoriston? I am hoping to climb the Mullardochs later this year
> and, whilst I normally just drive up and back the same day, I may be
> glad of a camp as it will be a long day.
>
> Doesn't have to be anything special - somthing along the lines of Red
> Squirrel (Glencoe) or Slig (Skye).

I camped at Red Squirrel at this last New Year. I would have thought it was
unique! Is there really anywhere else like it? :-)  :-)  :-)

EARTHDWELLER

Email andrew_burley@bigwig.net
Personal web-site EARTHDWELLER - http://www.bigwig.net/earthdweller
Community web-site MELTHAM ON THE WEB - http://welcome.to/meltham







Subject: Re: Cottage for sale in West Lakes
From: EARTHDWELLER (earthdweller@bigwig.net)

john david myers <jdmyers@globalnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7lj3v1$rv6$6@gxsn.com...
> Yes but doesnt lamb in Wasdale come precooked...saving electricity.
> :-)
Even better for lightweight camping... :-)

EARTHDWELLER

Email andrew_burley@bigwig.net
Personal web-site EARTHDWELLER - http://www.bigwig.net/earthdweller
Community web-site MELTHAM ON THE WEB - http://welcome.to/meltham







Subject: Re: 101 Uses for a GPS
From: Stuart Baldwin (stuart@boxatrix.demon.co.uk)

On Fri, 2 Jul 1999 19:10:24 +0100, Martin Richardson
<martinr@thequiff.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>In article <7lis39$1og$4@news1.cableinet.co.uk>, Dave Cox
><cox@cableinetnospam.co.uk> writes
>>101) - proving to your wife we are where I said we are on the map.
>>
>
>102 Finding the spot again where you buried your wife.
>
Uh, oh!  Thread drift towards mountain bikes...
-- 
Stuart Baldwin




Subject: Re: Campsite recommendations near Cannich
From: Jim Willsher (jim@willsher.sol.co.uk)

Graham,

Superb, many thanks for all that information. So, did you take in the
four hills? That's the route I was hoping to do, but didn;t know the
boat service existed.

Any idea when that estate (?) starts stalking? I know it is now
officially stag season, but many estates don't start until September.



Jim


On Fri, 2 Jul 1999 21:02:23 +0100, "Graham Ingram"
<graham@terregles.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

>
>Jim Willsher wrote in message <377d06ec.4873277@news.scotland.net>...
>>Can anyone recommend a campsite near to Cannich / Drumnadrochit /
>>InverMoriston? I am hoping to climb the Mullardochs later this year
>>{Snip}
>
>
>Jim
>
>There is a campsite in Cannich itself which is actually and excellent site
>and one of the cheapest around ( 4.80) for a two man tent. It has good
>facilities on site and a pub and hotel within 5 mins walk.  The site also
>has a Youth Hostel and a bunkhouse next to it with beds from 5 per person
>per night.  we ( my son and myself) just did this trip last Sunday. We
>camped at Cannich on the Saturday night ( be warned full midge repellant and
>mosi net required). we left the site at 8 a.m. Sunday and drove 20 minutes
>to Mullardoch Dam where we had arranged to get the ferry ( 6 seated motor
>boat) to the end of the loch. The ferry is run by Carl who lives at Benula
>Lodge next to the dam and can be contacted on 01456 415347. It costs  25
>for up to 3 passengers or 7 a head for 4 to 6.  The trip up the loch takes
>45 minutes saving around six mile 3 hour hike along rough ground.  We
>started walking at 9:15 a.m and the rain started at 9:20 a.m. It rained
>heavily most of the day with low cloud and poor visibility but there is no
>real navigation problem with a footpath / track going the whole way round.
>we arrived back at the dam at 5 p.m. or just under 8 hours on the hill.
>Fairly easy going most of the way but extremely boggy on the descent and
>return to the dam. One peculiar point of interest is the half eaten
>carcasses of three sheep lying on the path to An Socach all within the first
>mile of walking. ( handy if you forget the sandwiches :-).
>Whatever way you do it have a good one
>
>Regards
>Graham
>



Jim Willsher (jim@willsher.sol.co.uk)

Homepages at http://www.sol.co.uk/w/willsher




Subject: Re: The ULTIMATE personal safety device for people and pets!
From: EARTHDWELLER (earthdweller@bigwig.net)

Phil Cook <phil@p-t-cook.nukeallspamfreeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7lj6sl$r1a$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
> >
> >I used to have a festival setup with an ex-military folding radio
> aerial and
> >a string of LEDs up it. Not too difficult to locate at all, as it was
> higher
> >than everybody else's :-) Not so good for lightening strikes I
> suppose...
> >
> >EARTHDWELLER
> >
> Does this work when you're stoned out of your mind?

I wouldn't know :-)

EARTHDWELLER

Email andrew_burley@bigwig.net
Personal web-site EARTHDWELLER - http://www.bigwig.net/earthdweller
Community web-site MELTHAM ON THE WEB - http://welcome.to/meltham







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Subject: Re: Macabre find
From: m.campbell (m.campbell@tinyonline.co.uk)

Sounds more like Glasgow Rangers fans were responsible.
Malcolm
Yogi Bear wrote in message <7lagqd$f62$1@plutonium.btinternet.com>...
>Gavin Whittaker wrote in message <7la8vl$p7q$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>...
>>   So, were the wounds cauterised?  If they were, then it was a dragon
>>with surgical backup.  Otherwise, it's looking like alien wolves.
>>
>Sorry, I didn't look that closely (unaccountably slipped my mind), but the
>legs
>definitely weren't barbecued, so that rather rules out the dragon theory.
>
>The alien wolves might explain the 100 tons of gravel in the Caenlochan
Glen
>that someone else mentioned - maybe their UFO had to jettison ballast in
>order to take off again?
>How about the Big Grey Man of Ben Macdui, a little way from home?  Or some
>very hungry campers?
>Yogi
>--
>yogy.bear                    |   smarter than the
>(at) btinternet.com       |   average spammer
>
>
>
>
>






Subject: Re: litter in the Lakes
From: David Springthorpe (dspringy@one.net.au)

On Fri, 2 Jul 1999 20:44:14 +0100, "Peter Jones" <Peter.A.Jones@tesco.net>
wrote:

>
>Now, I long ago got used to the fact that there is a minority (?) of eejits

For the benefit of us uneducated colonials, what exactly is the
derivation/meaning of  "eejit" ? (and we get such morons here as
well.....can carry a whole lot of cans in full and heavy but don't seem to
be able to carry them out when they're empty and light.....and from a recent
experience, cannot be bothered walking 100 metres to a toilet block.....most
noticeable in popular places where groups of inexperienced, unsupervised and
mostly male youths can get to.....) 

David Springthorpe,
Sydney NSW Australia.





Subject: Re: Campsite recommendations near Cannich
From: Graham Ingram (graham@terregles.freeserve.co.uk)


Jim Willsher wrote in message <377d34c0.6580952@news.scotland.net>...
>Graham,
>
>Superb, many thanks for all that information. So, did you take in the
>four hills? That's the route I was hoping to do, but didn;t know the
>boat service existed.
>
>Any idea when that estate (?) starts stalking? I know it is now
>officially stag season, but many estates don't start until September.

Jim
The boat drops you off at the buildings at the junction of Allt Socrach and
Allt Coire a'Mhaim at GR. 141 312. Our party was a regular walker friend and
each of our sons ( 14 & 15 and both experienced walkers). We followed the
path on the north side of Allt Coire a'Mhaim, over fairly flat moorland
 past the three dead sheep) and up the SE ridge of An Sochach to the trig
point summit. From there we followed the path to An Riabhachan which is a
sharp climb onto a 2km fairly level ridge walk to a large cairn at the 1129
point on the OS. ( note the OS has the An Riabhachan named at the lower SW
top of 1086.) A narrower ridge takes you down to the bealach before the
stiffest climb of the day of 1000ft to the summit of Sgurr na Lapaich and
the highest point of the round. The trig point is enclosed in a circular
cairn / shelter. ( as a matter of interest we started discussing if any
other "standard rounds" had two trig points on the one walk and we couldn't
think of any at the time). The next part of the walk was the trickiest
navigation of the day as you have to find the SE ridge of Sgurr na Lapaich
and descend it without drifting down into the steep corrie above Loch Tuill
Bhearnach. The path is very faint here but I would think straightforward in
clear visibility. As we had driving rain and mist by this time with
visibility down to around 10mtrs we were quite happy to come out on target
at the wide bealach below Carn nan Gobhar. The last hill of the day is an
easy climb to the cairned summit. We descended from here by the NE Ridge
which is very broad at the top then narrows to the bealach before Creag
Dubh. From the bealach it is a simple descent South then South east and we
joined the stalkers path down the Allt Mullardoch exactly on its last zig
zag down the hill then followed it all the way to the dam.
The estate is listed as owned by Balmore & Cozac Estate but I do not have
their number. Carl ( the boatman) also takes out shooting parties on the
estate but the main stalking is not until mid October through to end
November. There is no stalking on Sunday's but Carl also indicated that the
shooting takes place in Corries away from the route described above. He
would also be the point of contact if you wanted to check on stalking before
you set off.
I can't think of any more detail at this point so hopefully that will help,
enjoy these hills and I hope you get better weather than we did
Cheers
Graham






Subject: Ridgeway Walk - Accomodation
From: Bob Butler (bob.butler@net.ntl.com)

For Watlington I found these on the yellow pages http://www.yell.co.uk/

                               Lambert Arms Hotel
                               London Rd Aston Rowant
                               Watlington Oxfordshire OX9 5SB
                               Tel: 01844 351496
                                (no idea what this is like)

                               Fox & Hounds
                               13, Shirburn St
                                Watlington Oxfordshire OX9 5BU
                                Tel: 01491 612142
                                (although this is in the guide for The
Ridgeway I was told they don't accomodation any more.)

but no hotels at Letcombe basset.
The information and accomodation guide gives nothing for these two
villages

We found accomodation a bit thin on the ground along the way.

It makes a great walk, plenty of good views across the valleys
- although we ducked out after 54 miles last week it was just  a bit
toooo wet for us!!





Subject: Ice Axe For Sale (Derbyshire, UK)
From: Mike Pearce (mike.pearce@england.com)

Ice Axe For Sale

Manufacturer: Mountain Technology (Glencoe)

Model: 'Mountaineering Axe' - Drop forged head, Alluminimum Shaft,
rubber grip. A very high quality axe.

Length: 70 cm.

Condition: New (purchased three years ago but has never been used.) 

Accessories: Rubber head cover. Rubber spike cover.

Use: Ideal for general mountaineering, alpine mountaineering or winter
mountain walking and Scottish winter climbing up grade two to three.

Cost new 74.95 yours for 40.

Can be collected from Derbyshire (Nr. Matlock) or will post at cost.

Cheers

Mike Pearce




Subject: Re: eejit
From: Peter Jones (peter.a.jones@tesco.net)

aka idiot - Irish - don't you get Father Ted over there?

Pete's Website - http://homepages.tesco.net/~Peter.A.Jones/






Subject: Re: Parking for munros
From: Surfer! (nevis-view@nospam.demon.co.uk)

In article <ncliffe-ya023080000107992158110001@news.axion.bt.co.uk>,
Nigel Cliffe <ncliffe@btInternet.XgarbageX.com> writes
>In article <7l916r$sj0$4@news4.svr.pol.co.uk>, "Duncan Gray"
><duncan@duncolm.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Richard Webb wrote in message <3777d464.8074628@news.u-net.com>...
>> >On Tue, 22 Jun 1999 23:12:53 +0100, "BurtonBooks"
>> ><burtonbooks@tesco.net> wrote:
>
>> >>If it's privacy you want, then surely a Munro is one of the last places to
>> >>go?
>> >>john
>
>> >M*nr*s are fine, all you have to do is avoid the wee red lines in That
>> >Book.
>
>> And the summits of course
>
>Only the famous ones or weekends, even on the red lines. The ones with long
>walks from the roads are pretty quiet mid-week. Saw three people and only
>one close enough to speak to during one day of 34km last week (though not
>on a 'recommended' red line, just an 'alternative'). 

In May even the famous ones near roads may well be quiet at weekends -
after all the whole juvenile population is busy taking exams, especially
university students!

Of course Ben Nevis will probably only be quiet on foul weather on the
'tourist' path - but then the CMD arete was pretty quiet in May one
year, and so was Tower Ridge in September another year.
> 
>
>- Nigel
>

-- 
Surfer!




Subject: Re: litter in the Lakes
From: John Dawson (john@jondaw.demon.co.uk)

On Sat, 03 Jul 1999 06:10:27 GMT, dspringy@one.net.au (David
Springthorpe) wrote:

>For the benefit of us uneducated colonials, what exactly is the
>derivation/meaning of  "eejit" ?

"Idiot"
I first came across the word in the novels of Irish writer
Edna O'Brien.

John D.
-- 
John Dawson at home in Kendal, Cumbria.
Lake District Walks Web Pages: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/ldnet/
42 detailed walks, 300+ photographs, GPS data, Screen Savers
Best of Europe, Medaille d'Or and Yell Top Ten New Site





Subject: Re: Macabre find
From: Ewan Crawford (ewan.crawford@lineone.net)

I take it your a Celtic fan then???

Ewan

"m.campbell" wrote:

> Sounds more like Glasgow Rangers fans were responsible.
> Malcolm
> Yogi Bear wrote in message <7lagqd$f62$1@plutonium.btinternet.com>...
> >Gavin Whittaker wrote in message <7la8vl$p7q$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>...
> >>   So, were the wounds cauterised?  If they were, then it was a dragon
> >>with surgical backup.  Otherwise, it's looking like alien wolves.
> >>
> >Sorry, I didn't look that closely (unaccountably slipped my mind), but the
> >legs
> >definitely weren't barbecued, so that rather rules out the dragon theory.
> >
> >The alien wolves might explain the 100 tons of gravel in the Caenlochan
> Glen
> >that someone else mentioned - maybe their UFO had to jettison ballast in
> >order to take off again?
> >How about the Big Grey Man of Ben Macdui, a little way from home?  Or some
> >very hungry campers?
> >Yogi
> >--
> >yogy.bear                    |   smarter than the
> >(at) btinternet.com       |   average spammer
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >





Subject: Re: Cheap Backpacking gear rec.'s ?
From: Peter Jones (peter.a.jones@tesco.net)

The Field & Trek own brand stuff (esp sleeping bags) is pretty good -

    http://www.field-trek.co.uk/

Pete's Website - http://homepages.tesco.net/~Peter.A.Jones/






Subject: Re: litter in the Lakes
From: Nigel G. Brown (nigelb@firstnet.co.uk)


Peter Jones <Peter.A.Jones@tesco.net> wrote in message
news:7lj523$4g2$5@barcode.tesco.net...
> Friday July 2nd, I was stunned by the mountain of
> shit on top of England's highest mountain - a wasteland of coke cans and
> decaying banana skins.

Last Sunday, I was up Gordale Scar, Malham Tarn & Malham Cove. The garbage
thrown between the rocks above Malham Cove was an absolute disgrace. Upon
our descent into the cove itself, there were beer cans thrown all over the
place and floating in the river just by the base of the cove. I assumed
their must have been some sort of bonding experience going on only recently
as they clearly had no idea how to set and clear a proper camp fire or take
their garbage home with them.

Upon our return to Malhams NT car park, I noticed the text on the back of
our pay and display ticket which in brief said "Please take your litter home
with you. Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but tracks".

Here, Here

--
Nigel.







Subject: Re: help needed finding the best campingsites in England / Scotland !
From: Stephen Aspey (ste.ve@ste-aspey.freeserve.co.uk)

For the lake district why not try the National trust camp site at Wasdale
head? Has showers etc and arguably the best mountain scenery of any camp
site in the area! Also close to some of the major peaks that no doubt you'll
be wanting to climb. Have a great time where ever you get to.
Ste......


Alrik Boonstra <aba@xs4all.nl> wrote in message
news:377609d1.516459@news.xs4all.nl...
> Hi UK-Walkers,
>
> In 3 weeks I'll leave Holland and head for Scotland / England. Because
> we are walkers and campers I am looking for some good campingsites in
> the following areas :
>
> Lake District
> Near Loch Lomond
> West Coast of Scotland
> Skye
>
> That will be our route for the first 2 weeks. After that we head for
> Devon / Cornwall. Any tips for camping in these areas are also very
> welcome.
>
> We like camping in a natural environment (near lakes, on mountains,
> great views, not to much caravans etc.) and we do not care much about
> facilities like swimmingpools, disco's etc. etc.
>
> I hope you can help us !
>
> Thanx,
>
> Alrik
> Alrik Boonstra
> aba@xs4all.nl
> 06 26020386
> ICQ # : 33117824






Subject: Re: litter in the Lakes
From: Peter Jones (peter.a.jones@tesco.net)

I've never had much time for Wainwright, irritable old curmudgeon that he
was, but his idea that litter droppers be castrated deserves serious
consideration......or maybe concentration camps would be a good idea.....

Pete's Website - http://homepages.tesco.net/~Peter.A.Jones/






Subject: Re: litter in the Lakes
From: john david myers (jdmyers@globalnet.co.uk)

It is definately the mentality of society these days.....i live on the road
between Fintry and Denny in the Campsies..and i regularly go jogging on this
road .......you wouldnt believe the ammount of rubbish thrown from
cars..........I could fill a skip...!!
What i find totally unacceptable  and unbelievable is the poeple who would
take the trouble to drive all the way up the Tack Me Doon road from  from
Kilsyth to ditch a 3 piece suite in a forestry entrance and drive past the
local council refuse collection point  to get there......I ask you what kind
of society do we live in...?
I dont believe you can disassociate the kind of city centre mentality where
it seems quite acceptable to live ammong rubbish,, from the kind of
mentality who would leave crisp packets on the top of Helvellin.
Its exactly the same thing......

jdm


                                            Nigel G. Brown
<nigelb@firstnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:377e13a0.0@katana.legend.co.uk...
>
> Peter Jones <Peter.A.Jones@tesco.net> wrote in message
> news:7lj523$4g2$5@barcode.tesco.net...
> > Friday July 2nd, I was stunned by the mountain of
> > shit on top of England's highest mountain - a wasteland of coke cans and
> > decaying banana skins.
>
> Last Sunday, I was up Gordale Scar, Malham Tarn & Malham Cove. The garbage
> thrown between the rocks above Malham Cove was an absolute disgrace. Upon
> our descent into the cove itself, there were beer cans thrown all over the
> place and floating in the river just by the base of the cove. I assumed
> their must have been some sort of bonding experience going on only
recently
> as they clearly had no idea how to set and clear a proper camp fire or
take
> their garbage home with them.
>
> Upon our return to Malhams NT car park, I noticed the text on the back of
> our pay and display ticket which in brief said "Please take your litter
home
> with you. Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but tracks".
>
> Here, Here
>
> --
> Nigel.
>
>
>






Subject: Re: litter in the Lakes
From: NeilTonks (neiltonks@aol.com)

"john david myers" <jdmyers@globalnet.co.uk> wrote:

>What i find totally unacceptable  and unbelievable is the poeple who would
>take the trouble to drive all the way up the Tack Me Doon road from  from
>Kilsyth to ditch a 3 piece suite in a forestry entrance and drive past the
>local council refuse collection point  to get there......I ask you what kind
>of society do we live in...?

They probably drove there intending to use the collection point and found it
closed, so they found somewhere quiet nearby to dump their garbage.  It's a
common problem - areas near to refuse sites often have more than their fair
share of fly-tipping.


Neil Tonks

(Peak District website:  http://members.aol.com/pdwalks)




Subject: Re: eejit
From: NeilTonks (neiltonks@aol.com)

"Michael Painter" <mpainter@inreach.com> wrote:
>

>I figured out idiot but now you'll have to tell us about Father Ted.
>I should warn you in advance that if you think he is a wacko religious nut,
>you ain't seen nothing until you've seen and heard some of them here in the
>US.

Father Ted is a fictional character, a parody Irish Catholic priest in a
British sitcom.

The programe had achieved 'cult' status over here but sadly the actor who
played Father Ted died suddnely last year, so the series is no more.  Shame -
it was brilliant!

Neil Tonks

(Peak District website:  http://members.aol.com/pdwalks)




Subject: Re: litter in the Lakes
From: Roger Chapman (r.chapman@zetnet.co.uk)

The message <7lj523$4g2$5@barcode.tesco.net>
  from  "Peter Jones" <Peter.A.Jones@tesco.net> contains these words: 

> The litter problem appears to have evaporated elsewhere in the Lakes, 
> but continues to be a problem on the Pike. 

Any connection I wonder with the recent spate of National 3 Peaks 
charity walks?

Roger






Subject: Re: eejit
From: Michael Painter (mpainter@inreach.com)


Peter Jones <Peter.A.Jones@tesco.net> wrote in message
news:7lkn6v$9hr$1@epos.tesco.net...
> aka idiot - Irish - don't you get Father Ted over there?
>
> Pete's Website - http://homepages.tesco.net/~Peter.A.Jones/

I figured out idiot but now you'll have to tell us about Father Ted.
I should warn you in advance that if you think he is a wacko religious nut,
you ain't seen nothing until you've seen and heard some of them here in the
US.






Subject: Re: Macabre find
From: Stephen Aspey (ste.ve@ste-aspey.freeserve.co.uk)

Perhaps chopping the legs off made it easier to fit in a rucksack?
Ste........            80)

Yogi Bear <yogi@jellystone.com> wrote in message
news:7l5kvm$pah$2@plutonium.btinternet.com...
> On the col between Little Glas Maol and Glas Maol on Friday, I came across
> the four legs of an adult sheep.  Just the legs, no other bones or bits of
> fleece or anything anywhere nearby.  Not decayed at all, apparently in
> perfect condition (apart from not being attached to a sheep).  Now, I'm
used
> to finding sheep carcasses on the hills, in various stages of decay, but
> usually you get most of the animal, even if it has been scattered about a
> bit.  I haven't seen anything like this before and found it rather creepy.
> (I kept looking behind me all the way back to Glen Shee).
> Can anyone explain this, or do I assume that the Beast of Bodmin has gone
> north for the summer?
> Yogi
> --
> yogy.bear                    |   smarter than the
> (at) btinternet.com       |   average spammer
>
>






Subject: Re: Offa's Dyke Path - fantastic
From: Alan White (alan.lesley@dial.pipex.com)

On 2 Jul 1999 19:27:44 GMT, Kevin West <kwest@ryde.prestel.co.uk>
wrote:

>I have just finished this fantastic walk and would like to
>thank all contributors for advice.  I thoroughly recommend it as
>an interesting mixture of all landscapes/terrains.
>The accomodation guide provided by the OD Asscn is invaluable.

You managed to avoid tripping over in the midden at Springhill Farm
then.

-- 
Alan White,
in England's Lake District.
http://ds.dial.pipex.com/alan.lesley/




Subject: Re: GPS
From: Rasmus Dahl (rad@image.dk)



>Why do so many people think that GPS users are going to follow it that
>closely ?!?
>
>People do look where they are going. If you can't see where you are
>going to put your feet then you are in trouble - probably best to stay
>put.
>
>Phil.

A GPS is to tell you where you are, where a map and compass is to tell you
where you can go.

Until GPS-systems will show a map and plot your position accuratly, as well
as beeing totally independent of a powersource they will not compeed with
map n compass.

Rasmus






Subject: Re: GPS
From: Alan White (alan.lesley@dial.pipex.com)

On Sat, 3 Jul 1999 19:59:01 +0200, "Rasmus Dahl" <rad@image.dk> wrote:

>
>A GPS is to tell you where you are, where a map and compass is to tell you
>where you can go.
>

A GPS will tell you where you are with an accuracy that is better than
100 metres for 95% of the time. For the other 5% it can be wildly out,
I've seen as much as 500 metres error but it's typically 30 to 50
metres (which on the 1:50,000 map is equivalent to 0.6mm to 1.0mm).

>
>Until GPS-systems will show a map and plot your position accuratly, as well
>as beeing totally independent of a powersource they will not compeed with
>map n compass.
>

That is broadly true but at the current state of the art, and I write
as an enthusiastic GPS user for the last four years, they _must_ be
used and interpreted with an understanding of their limitations.

They are a fun gadget with very serious potential.

We use ours for recording the tracks of our walks, to provide a
permanent record of where we've been rather than where we think we've
been.

In the four years, I think we've only used it twice for "serious"
navigation and then in non-hazardous circumstances.

-- 
Alan White,
in England's Lake District.
http://ds.dial.pipex.com/alan.lesley/




Subject: Re: litter in the Lakes
From: EARTHDWELLER (earthdweller@bigwig.net)

Peter Jones <Peter.A.Jones@tesco.net> wrote in message
news:7lldcs$dr9$1@epos.tesco.net...
> I've never had much time for Wainwright, irritable old curmudgeon that he
> was, but his idea that litter droppers be castrated deserves serious
> consideration......or maybe concentration camps would be a good idea.....

A concentration camp in somewhere really flat, so that they learn to
appreciate the hills.

And while some sheep would try to tell you otherwise, mother's carefully
prepared egg mayonnaise sandwiches are not their staple diet, especially
when wrapped in cling film. If they're not fit for humans to eat then they
can't be fit for sheep either.

EARTHDWELLER

Email andrew_burley@bigwig.net
Personal web-site EARTHDWELLER - http://www.bigwig.net/earthdweller
Community web-site MELTHAM ON THE WEB - http://welcome.to/meltham







Subject: Re: Macabre find
From: EARTHDWELLER (earthdweller@bigwig.net)

Stephen Aspey <ste.ve@ste-aspey.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7llpht$en4$1@news4.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Perhaps chopping the legs off made it easier to fit in a rucksack?
> Ste........            80)

Maybe they forgot to take some wellies :-)

EARTHDWELLER

Email andrew_burley@bigwig.net
Personal web-site EARTHDWELLER - http://www.bigwig.net/earthdweller
Community web-site MELTHAM ON THE WEB - http://welcome.to/meltham
ULY Descriptor - '64 M Y1- L+ U U-- KQ C-- c-- !B p-- Sh+ s-
FC(Millmoor,Meltham) !S R(HD7) I++ !H






Subject: Nevis "Mobile Phone" SOS
From: Adrian Marsh Tupper (adrian.tupper@zetnet.co.uk)

I see on Ceefax that a walker or climber was rescued from Ben Nevis 
today following a SOS from his mobile phone (via his wife I think).

Anyone know the details?

What telecom service was he using?  ;-)
-- 
Adrian Tupper, Edinburgh
adrian.tupper@zetnet.co.uk
McClassify's Munro Bagging on the Web
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/adriantupper/mindex.htm





Subject: Re: litter in the Lakes
From: Dave Cox (cox@cableinetnospam.co.uk)

As a "FHM-reading townie twat" (but without the FHM) I follow a simple code
when walking.

Take only memories, leave only footprints. Dont brand all of us townies the
same, I would love to live in the middle of the countryside, unfortunalty I
have to work for a living and so have to live near a city.

Oh and by the way, who is your ISP..... I rest my case.

--

Coxie,
Remove nospam from my address to reply
ICQ 21559285
dacox@cableinet.nospamco.uk

Peter Jones wrote in message <7lj523$4g2$5@barcode.tesco.net>...
>The litter problem appears to have evaporated elsewhere in the Lakes, but
>continues to be a problem on the Pike. I attribute this to two factors -
>youth groups being 'educated' into the ways of the countryside, and
>FHM-reading townie twats in search of a male bonding experience. In the
>former case, why aren't the group leaders paying proper attention to the
>antics of the scum they are nominally in charge of? In the latter
>instance....ah, words fail me.......piss off back to Blackpool you
bastards.
>
>Pete's Website - http://homepages.tesco.net/~Peter.A.Jones/
>
>






Subject: Re: Nevis "Mobile Phone" SOS
From: belgrave (lomax@globalnet.co.uk)

Dunno - but my vodophone works perfectly
well on the summit of Ben Nevis.


Adrian Marsh Tupper <adrian.tupper@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1999070321564069453@zetnet.co.uk...
>I see on Ceefax that a walker or climber was rescued from Ben Nevis
>today following a SOS from his mobile phone (via his wife I think).
>
>Anyone know the details?
>
>What telecom service was he using?  ;-)
>--
>Adrian Tupper, Edinburgh
>adrian.tupper@zetnet.co.uk
>McClassify's Munro Bagging on the Web
>http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/adriantupper/mindex.htm
>






Subject: Re: Harvesting rain water from plants
From: Kevin West (kwest@ryde.prestel.co.uk)

It is a serious but fairly academic question but it does happen that 
people find themselves in need of water even in this country.
You know when you go on long walks you have lots of time to think
idle thoughts.  It does avoid the problem of contamination by ground 
pollutants.
Would appreciate some learned thoughts.
Regards
Kev

> It occurred to me that a way of getting water if desperate 
> assuming you have no large container to collect it in would be
> to "harvest" it from rain soaked plants using the very absorbent
> pack towels.  Other than pesticides/herbicides are there any reason 
> why this would not be safe.
> Kev





Subject: Re: Ice Axe For Sale (Derbyshire, UK)
From:  (nigelpw@my-deja.com)

I may be interested in buying your Ice axe if it is still for sale


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.




Subject: Re: Fundraising Team in Horse Crash
From: EARTHDWELLER (earthdweller@bigwig.net)

Alan Ashton <Alan.Ashton@tesco.net> wrote in message
news:7lm2hc$98s$1@barcode.tesco.net...
> Better be careful though, if riders and cyclists should
> be insured, what about walkers?

It's one of the benefits of BMC membership. Anyone can end up being sued for
doing anything nowadays and although some house insurance policies may
contain something which can help, having a policy aimed at our sort of
activities makes sense. Accidentally dislodge a piece of rock, watch it roll
down the hill and kill someone and you could face a massive claim.

EARTHDWELLER

Email andrew_burley@bigwig.net
Personal web-site EARTHDWELLER - http://www.bigwig.net/earthdweller
Community web-site MELTHAM ON THE WEB - http://welcome.to/meltham
ULY Descriptor - '64 M Y1- L+ U U-- KQ C-- c-- !B p-- Sh+ s-
FC(Millmoor,Meltham) !S R(HD7) I++ !H






Subject: Re: GPS
From: Michael Painter (mpainter@inreach.com)


Alan White <alan.lesley@dial.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:37855c7d.92397531@news.dial.pipex.com...
> On Sat, 3 Jul 1999 19:59:01 +0200, "Rasmus Dahl" <rad@image.dk> wrote:
>
> >
> >A GPS is to tell you where you are, where a map and compass is to tell
you
> >where you can go.
> >
>
> A GPS will tell you where you are with an accuracy that is better than
> 100 metres for 95% of the time. For the other 5% it can be wildly out,
> I've seen as much as 500 metres error but it's typically 30 to 50
> metres (which on the 1:50,000 map is equivalent to 0.6mm to 1.0mm).

Depends on how much you are willing to pay and carry. Handhelds are used in
surveying and there are units that will return down to a few cetimeters.
A blind person was recently featured on a TV show that could tell where he
was anywhere in the US to within a few feet.
His gear was off the shelf but a bit heavy as it required a voice interface
and map of the complete US.
The Delorme unit along with their CD will show the street you are on with
little promlems.

> >Until GPS-systems will show a map and plot your position accuratly, as
well
> >as beeing totally independent of a powersource they will not compeed with
> >map n compass.
> >
>
> That is broadly true but at the current state of the art, and I write
> as an enthusiastic GPS user for the last four years, they _must_ be
> used and interpreted with an understanding of their limitations.
>
> They are a fun gadget with very serious potential.
>
> We use ours for recording the tracks of our walks, to provide a
> permanent record of where we've been rather than where we think we've
> been.
>
> In the four years, I think we've only used it twice for "serious"
> navigation and then in non-hazardous circumstances.
>
> --
> Alan White,
> in England's Lake District.
> http://ds.dial.pipex.com/alan.lesley/






Subject: Re: Fundraising Team in Horse Crash
From: Alan Ashton (alan.ashton@tesco.net)


       Alan Ashton, Ty'n-y-Ffridd, Llechwedd,
                  CONWY.  LL32 8LJ
Halfway up Tal-y-Fan, lovely view of Blackpool Tower

----------

>I can see a Rights Of Way discussion approaching!
Actually for horses on
>roads, there ought to be some legal requirement for
riders to take a
>proficiency test and to have insurance before using
roads (same goes for
>cyclists).
>

Most riders will have come via Pony Club, and they do
have profficiency tests. You will also find most riders
are insured....horses can be expensive.
Better be careful though, if riders and cyclists should
be insured, what about walkers?
Alan




Subject: Re: Halls Fell Ridge, Blencathra
From: Simon Barber (simon@antrobus.demon.codotuk)

On Mon, 21 Jun 1999 09:50:46 GMT, foxyandy@hotmail.com wrote:

>A good (half) day out can be had by ascending via Sharp Edge, and
>descending on Halls Fell, though maybe not for someone wary of heights.
>
>After reading this ng it's obvious that Halls Fell is a lot easier in
>descent than ascent, as the route is always clearly visible winding its
>way down through the rocks. It's certainly the best way down off the
>summit I've found, albeit a bit hard on the knees.
>
Or, my personal favourite, ascend via Halls Fell, descend from the
summit north-easterly ("round the back") and circle round to Scales
Tarn, have a swim, climb Sharp Edge to the summit again, descend back
to Threlkeld via any route you choose (Doddick Fell, I suggest).  Then
into the Salutation for a few beers and a late lunch.  Before all-day
opening I managed to do this circuit and return before lunch-time
closing at 2pm.  Thank goodness for all-day opening because I don't
think I'd do it so quickly now!

(Rather hedonistically, on the day I described above, my three friends
and I then drove round to Glenridding, hired a rowing boat for an hour
or two, pottered around Ullswater in it, then into the hotel for a
cream tea.  It was indulgent but obviously the right thing to do as I
have such good memories now!)

--
Simon Barber, Cheshire, UK.
(Reply address spamtrapped)
--




Subject: Re: Macabre find
From: W.D.Grey (bill@graigroad.demon.co.uk)

In article <7lagqd$f62$1@plutonium.btinternet.com>, Yogi Bear
<yogi@jellystone.com> writes
>Sorry, I didn't look that closely (unaccountably slipped my mind), but the
>legs
>definitely weren't barbecued, so that rather rules out the dragon theory.

Everyone so far has *assumed* it was one sheep!

It may have been one leg from each of four sheep:-)
-- 
Bill
http://www.graigroad.demon.co.uk




Subject: Re: litter in the Lakes
From: David Springthorpe (dspringy@one.net.au)

Well, I said "morons", so I wasn't far off.....

David Springthorpe.




Subject: Re: Guided Walks France???
From: Nigel (nigelr@bolt.rossiters.co.uk)

In article <zeTnfLAVW6e3EwzU@namron.demon.co.uk>, 
Peter@namron.demon.co.uk says...
> Anyone got personal recommendation for companies organising guided walks
> in France Other than HF or RH
> --
> peter
>                     
> 
Just returned from one with Headwater in the Auvergne.  The scenery 
and area were great.  The hotel was excellent but I guess guided 
walking may not be for me (independent bastard my friends (?) 
reckon!).

I would certainly recommend it and they have quite a few available - 
01606 813399 or info@headwater.com

As a PS I would be interested if anyone else has holiday'd in the 
Cantal area of the Auvergne - somewhere I would definitely like to 
walk.

Regards
-- 
Nigel - and un "bolt" to mail
'It is always useful to have an enemy who is prepared to die for 
his country, this means that both you and he have exactly the same 
aim in mind' TP - Jingo




Subject: Re: GPS
From: Alan White (alan.lesley@dial.pipex.com)

On Sat, 3 Jul 1999 17:38:21 -0700, "Michael Painter"
<mpainter@inreach.com> wrote:

>
>>
>> A GPS will tell you where you are with an accuracy that is better than
>> 100 metres for 95% of the time. For the other 5% it can be wildly out,
>> I've seen as much as 500 metres error but it's typically 30 to 50
>> metres (which on the 1:50,000 map is equivalent to 0.6mm to 1.0mm).
>
>Depends on how much you are willing to pay and carry. Handhelds are used in
>surveying and there are units that will return down to a few cetimeters.
>A blind person was recently featured on a TV show that could tell where he
>was anywhere in the US to within a few feet.
>His gear was off the shelf but a bit heavy as it required a voice interface
>and map of the complete US.
>The Delorme unit along with their CD will show the street you are on with
>little promlems.
>

I thought we were discussing (yet again :-( ) typical hand held units
used by the average walker or climber. Not many of these require
centimetric accuracy, are blind or pound the streets for fun.

OTOH a cheap way of achieving five metre accuracy is to stay in the
same place for 24 hours and average. I sometimes think that wouldn't
be a bad thing for some of the contributors to these newsgroups.

-- 
Alan White,
in England's Lake District.
http://ds.dial.pipex.com/alan.lesley/




Subject: Re: litter in the Lakes
From: Mark Wilden (mark@wilden16.freeserve.co.uk)

There's nothing much we can do about eejits. What we can do is, on every
walk, pick up one piece of litter. Since there are more of us than them,
this should prove effective.






Subject: Fenland Ramblers Website
From: FenRambler (fenrambler@aol.com)

You are invited to visit the Fenland Ramblers Group website.

Contacts, programme, newsletter and links to other groups.  Send us a link and
we'll put up bona fide walkers, camping sites.

Going walking in Fenland/West Norfolk - maybe we can help you?






Subject: Cotswold camping
From: Paul Richardson (paulrichardson@milkwood.cix.co.uk)


Has anybody ever successfully bought on-line from this outfit? I've 
emailed their sales dept. twice and been ignored each time.

--
Paul Richardson
paulrichardson@milkwood.cix.co.uk




Subject: Cornish Wildlife Mailing List
From: David Smith (david.smith2@tesco.net)

Hi,

I would like to invite you to join the Cornish Wildlife mailing list.

The description of this mailing list is:

"This list is to discuss all aspects of wildlidfe conservation in the County
of Cornwall in the UK.This is a particularly unstudied area and more
research is needed to ensure the survival of this particularly important
biological area.You don't need to be a resident of Cornwall to join or be a
wildlife expert".

You can join this list by going to the following web page:

     http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/CornishWildlife

or send a blank e-mail to CornishWildlife-subscribe@onelist.com



Thanks,

Vincent Smith.

List Owner




Subject: Re: Skye Campsites
From: Paul Simonite (stationhouse@zetnet.co.uk)

The message <930941339.25733.0.nnrp-03.c2dedf92@news.demon.co.uk>
  from  "Marty" <marty@geist.demon.co.uk> contains these words: 


> I apologise if this has been asked before.
> Which is better Glenbrittle or Sligachan? What are the facillities like? any
> info would be helpful.
> Thanks.

Hi,

We have just spent three nights on each site and would say:

Sligachan:

Cost 4UKP/person/night

There are some high pitches and some low.  The low ones get very wet 
in heavy rain.

The assistant warden is a jolly fellow who chases around with his 
money bag to ensure no-one gets away without paying :)

The site is noisy.  WE were awakened one night at 0345hrs and another 
at 0300hrs by revellers on site.

Small shop.  Laundry. Bogs average.

The pub is situated across the road, has several guest ales and great 
staff.  Beer 2.20UKP/pint.  Every Saturday night they have an 
extension and a *VERY LOUD* band plays until 0100hrs.

The Sgurr Nan Gillean and Am Bastard/Bruach Na Frith walks start from 
just behind the pub.

This is perhaps a better site for families who might require a 
laundry and access to pub meals and entertainments (many games 
machines in family room at pub)

Glen Brittle:

4.50 per person/night.

Well stocked site shop. Bogs average.

Situated by the beach, the white noise from the sea is soothing after 
a long trek.

No noise after 2300hrs (site rule) - We liked this after three 
sleepless nights in the noisy Sligachan.

Handy for all but the northern three of the Cuillin ridge hills.

It persisted down (non-stop) for 24hrs whilst we were there and none 
of the pitches seemed boggy.

Perhaps most important of all - the tent pegs went into the ground 
without the need of a Kango jack-hammer!  The site is on low-lying 
mature dunes and since the sand is mainly of Gabbro origin it seems 
to grip the pegs better than one might imagine.

No games machines etc. for children.

This is really a quiet site aimed at walkers/climbers.

Marks out of ten (subjective):  Sligachan 5/10  Glen Brittle 8/10

-- 
Cheers,

Paul (Compo) Simonite, Caithness





Subject: Re: Which GPS?
From: The Ferret (ferret@chateauferret.demon.co.uk)

On Fri, 2 Jul 1999 20:38:18 +0100, "Peter Jones"
<Peter.A.Jones@tesco.net> wrote:

>alternatively, you can get a compass for a tenner you sad techies

	If you used a GPS box you'd realise that it does just a *few*
things a compass doesn't. Insulting people on Usenet isn't one of
them, though.

	*plonk*
	

==========                                             Martin Bucknall
The Ferret                                          Stirling, Scotland
==========                            ferret@chateauferret.demon.co.uk
             * Si tacuisses, professus mansisses *




Subject: Mull Ferry Thanks
From: Paul Simonite (stationhouse@zetnet.co.uk)

Thanks to all for the Mull Ferry advice.

Going south we took the drive around Loch Eil to Lochaline and the 
ferry to Fishnish, returning on the Corran Ferry instead of the long 
drive back around the peninsula.  On Friday the ferries were quiet 
but when we returned on Saturday they were posititvely heaving.

The Corran Ferry is 4.70 for car and passengers (Single) and the 
Lochaline Ferry costs 22.50 for car + 2 passengers (Return).

I agree with the advice about not leaving it too late before reaching 
Lochaline for the evening ferries.  It is easy to see how one could 
be forced to spend a night in Ardnamurchan!
-- 
Cheers,

Paul (Compo) Simonite, Caithness





Subject: Re: Campsite recommendations near Cannich
From: Paul Simonite (stationhouse@zetnet.co.uk)

The message <7lkdqa$bgo$1@news4.svr.pol.co.uk>
  from  "Graham Ingram" <graham@terregles.freeserve.co.uk> contains 
these words: 

> >Superb, many thanks for all that information. So, did you take in the
> >four hills? That's the route I was hoping to do, but didn;t know the
> >boat service existed.


Julie and self didn't use the boat when we did these four.  There is 
a well trodden path along the lochside.  We set off early and the 
boat arrived about five minutes before we did - leaving us 20 quid 
better off! :)


-- 
Cheers,

Paul (Compo) Simonite, Caithness





Subject: Re: walking in uk for yank
From:  (johns231@my-deja.com)

Jim,
I would recommend the South Downs Way. See
http://www.nationtrails.gov.uk.
99 miles long from Eastbourne to Winchester.
I backpack in early June, great fun.

Regards John


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.




Subject: Re: walking in uk for yank
From:  (johns231@my-deja.com)

Jim,
I would recommend the South Downs Way. See
http://www.nationtrails.gov.uk.
99 miles long from Eastbourne to Winchester.
I backpacked it in early June, great fun.

Regards John


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.




Subject: transport share to Lakes
From: MichaelDonoghue (mick@donoghueswww.idps.co.uk)

I hope to go to the Lake District end of this month ( about 25th) and was
wondering if anyone was interested in sharing car costs from East Anglia?
Mick






Subject: Re: WTD: Garmin GPS III Plus
From: Ivor Tightbeat (tightbeat@nationwideisp.net)

Will any of these GPS translate to OS grid references?.............Ivor








Subject: Re: Cotswold camping
From: Rage (mr.bunny@bigfoot.com)

Personally I'd not bother. There website / online store has been out of
action for the last couple of months... What does that tell you their
attitude about online sales?

Paul Richardson wrote in message ...
>
>Has anybody ever successfully bought on-line from this outfit? I've
>emailed their sales dept. twice and been ignored each time.
>
>--
>Paul Richardson
>paulrichardson@milkwood.cix.co.uk






Subject: Re: Nevis "Mobile Phone" SOS
From: Surfer! (nevis-view@nospam.demon.co.uk)


None of the new digital services (Orange, 1-2-1) work in Fort William on
Ben Nevis.  I suspect Vodaphone is the only one which does.

Orange and 1-2-1 have plans to expand their coverage to include the
Great Glen.

In article <1999070321564069453@zetnet.co.uk>, Adrian Marsh Tupper
<adrian.tupper@zetnet.co.uk> writes
>I see on Ceefax that a walker or climber was rescued from Ben Nevis 
>today following a SOS from his mobile phone (via his wife I think).
>
>Anyone know the details?
>
>What telecom service was he using?  ;-)

-- 
Surfer!




Subject: Re: Fenland Ramblers Website
From: Giles Hook (hooky@southwest100.freeserve.co.uk)

What's the site address?



FenRambler wrote in message
<19990704072001.05084.00003667@ng-ck1.aol.com>...
>You are invited to visit the Fenland Ramblers Group website.
>
>Contacts, programme, newsletter and links to other groups.  Send us a link
and
>we'll put up bona fide walkers, camping sites.
>
>Going walking in Fenland/West Norfolk - maybe we can help you?
>
>






Subject: Lost priceless, worthless hat on Offa's Path
From: Kevin West (kwest@ryde.prestel.co.uk)

I lost me old favourite hat on OD path 
It was somewhere between Kingswood and Beacon Ring, probably
somewhere on the path in Poultry House Woods.
It came all the way from Oz and has the name of a pub still
faintly visible on the front. I think it's The Silverton or something
If anyone finds it please send it home to me.
Kev




Subject: Re: Cotswold camping
From: Paul Upham (paul.upham@btinternet.com)

>Has anybody ever successfully bought on-line from this outfit? I've
>emailed their sales dept. twice and been ignored each time.
>
>--

Yes and no!

When they first went on line for shopping, I had great sucess - the items
being with me within 2 days. I was highly satisified and told many people
about their wonderful service.

Last year I ordered some items and it eventually took me about 3 weeks
minimum to get part of the order, the rest not being in stock due to
"supplier difficulties" (Incidentally, the day I got that excuse, I ordered
the identical items from Field and Trek and got them very quick!).

Many of my e mails enquiring as to progress on the order went unanswered.
Eventually, I e mailed their Sales Manager - this was eventually answered
with the excuse that one of their Server computers had gone down, losing
half of my order (strange that they knew which items had been "lost",
without me telling them).

A year on, I gave them another go on Internet ordering and again had to wait
a long time. E mails went unanswered, so a telephone call brought a
response. Eventually, I received an e mail telling me a Server computer had
gone down - same excuse as the previous year!

I do most of my buying through Cotswold, but in future, I am reverting to
either telephoning or faxing an order through.

Regards

Paul






Subject: Re: Skye Campsites
From: William R. Brabender, CGA (billb@inforamp.net)

Why pay 4.50 pp for a campsite at Glen Brittle when the SYHA hostel is
just about 6.00 UK pounds???

I have stayed at the hostel not the campsite, so I am just curious why
one would choose the campsite if the difference is so small.

Bill

Paul Simonite wrote:
> 
> The message <930941339.25733.0.nnrp-03.c2dedf92@news.demon.co.uk>
>   from  "Marty" <marty@geist.demon.co.uk> contains these words:
> 
> > I apologise if this has been asked before.
> > Which is better Glenbrittle or Sligachan? What are the facillities like? any
> > info would be helpful.
> > Thanks.
> 
> Hi,
> 
> We have just spent three nights on each site and would say:
> 
> Sligachan:
> 
> Cost 4UKP/person/night
> 
> There are some high pitches and some low.  The low ones get very wet
> in heavy rain.
> 
> The assistant warden is a jolly fellow who chases around with his
> money bag to ensure no-one gets away without paying :)
> 
> The site is noisy.  WE were awakened one night at 0345hrs and another
> at 0300hrs by revellers on site.
> 
> Small shop.  Laundry. Bogs average.
> 
> The pub is situated across the road, has several guest ales and great
> staff.  Beer 2.20UKP/pint.  Every Saturday night they have an
> extension and a *VERY LOUD* band plays until 0100hrs.
> 
> The Sgurr Nan Gillean and Am Bastard/Bruach Na Frith walks start from
> just behind the pub.
> 
> This is perhaps a better site for families who might require a
> laundry and access to pub meals and entertainments (many games
> machines in family room at pub)
> 
> Glen Brittle:
> 
> 4.50 per person/night.
> 
> Well stocked site shop. Bogs average.
> 
> Situated by the beach, the white noise from the sea is soothing after
> a long trek.
> 
> No noise after 2300hrs (site rule) - We liked this after three
> sleepless nights in the noisy Sligachan.
> 
> Handy for all but the northern three of the Cuillin ridge hills.
> 
> It persisted down (non-stop) for 24hrs whilst we were there and none
> of the pitches seemed boggy.
> 
> Perhaps most important of all - the tent pegs went into the ground
> without the need of a Kango jack-hammer!  The site is on low-lying
> mature dunes and since the sand is mainly of Gabbro origin it seems
> to grip the pegs better than one might imagine.
> 
> No games machines etc. for children.
> 
> This is really a quiet site aimed at walkers/climbers.
> 
> Marks out of ten (subjective):  Sligachan 5/10  Glen Brittle 8/10
> 
> --
> Cheers,
> 
> Paul (Compo) Simonite, Caithness




Subject: Re: Cotswold camping
From: Storm Imaging (storm_imaging@bigfoot.com)


Paul Richardson wrote in message ...
>
>Has anybody ever successfully bought on-line from this outfit? I've
>emailed their sales dept. twice and been ignored each time.
>
>--
>Paul Richardson
>paulrichardson@milkwood.cix.co.uk

Paul,

This problem is not specific to Cotswold - a lot of companies set up
web sites / online stores etc 'cos it's the latest / trendiest thing
to do, but have little idea of how to administrate / manage them.  The
only company I've ever dealt with with a 100% success is Amazon.com
(The book people).

Regards

Craig Cooke

STORM_IMAGING@bigfoot.com

http://www.bigfoot.com/~storm_imaging

STORM-IT@bigfoot.com

http://www.bigfoot,com/~STORM-IT








Subject: Re: Nevis "Mobile Phone" SOS
From: Ken Lussey (lussey@arachnid.co.uk)

In article <T3szBNAUU2f3Ew8f@nevis-view.demon.co.uk>, Surfer! <nevis-
view@nospam.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>None of the new digital services (Orange, 1-2-1) work in Fort William on
>Ben Nevis.  I suspect Vodaphone is the only one which does.
>
>

Cellnet works fine both on the summit of Ben Nevis (there was no one
else there to be annoyed, honest!) and at the campsite in Glen Nevis.  I
can understand why line-of-sight can provide a signal on the summit: but
assume that there must be an antenna associated with the TV transceiver
on the hill between Fort W and the Glen to get a phone signal at the
camp site.

-- 
Ken Lussey                      
lussey@(nospam)arachnid.co.uk
http://www.arachnid.co.uk/




Subject: Re: GPS - Help - which one do I need ?
From: james clayton (james.clayton3@virgin.net)

I have the GPS 12 and like the other posts , I rate them,  good coverage in
forest ect although the altitude isn't very accurate.

I also believe that they now have 24hours of life on the 4 AA batteries>
>






Subject: FS : Berghaus Sack
From: Tony H. (nobody@nospam.co.uk)

I have a Berghaus Extrem Alpine Sack for sale. 50 + 10 litre size, current
model, as new condition (used twice in the Lakes earlier this year), surplus
to requirements. Please mail me below if interested

Regards
Tony H.
PS    RRP 90.00 in the Cotswold Brochure
tony@elbrus99.freeserve.co.uk







Subject: Re: GPS
From: Michael Painter (mpainter@inreach.com)


Alan White <alan.lesley@dial.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:37811099.138500230@news.dial.pipex.com...
> On Sat, 3 Jul 1999 17:38:21 -0700, "Michael Painter"
> <mpainter@inreach.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >>
> >> A GPS will tell you where you are with an accuracy that is better than
> >> 100 metres for 95% of the time. For the other 5% it can be wildly out,
> >> I've seen as much as 500 metres error but it's typically 30 to 50
> >> metres (which on the 1:50,000 map is equivalent to 0.6mm to 1.0mm).
> >
> >Depends on how much you are willing to pay and carry. Handhelds are used
in
> >surveying and there are units that will return down to a few cetimeters.
> >A blind person was recently featured on a TV show that could tell where
he
> >was anywhere in the US to within a few feet.
> >His gear was off the shelf but a bit heavy as it required a voice
interface
> >and map of the complete US.
> >The Delorme unit along with their CD will show the street you are on with
> >little promlems.
> >
>
> I thought we were discussing (yet again :-( ) typical hand held units
> used by the average walker or climber. Not many of these require
> centimetric accuracy, are blind or pound the streets for fun.
>
> OTOH a cheap way of achieving five metre accuracy is to stay in the
> same place for 24 hours and average. I sometimes think that wouldn't
> be a bad thing for some of the contributors to these newsgroups.

The statement:
"That is broadly true but at the current state of the art, and I write
as an enthusiastic GPS user for the last four years, they _must_ be
used and interpreted with an understanding of their limitations."

is what prompted my reply. Inexpensive devices today will give a precision
that will, with added hardware allow you to say that you are standing on the
southeast corner of  4th and main. They are accurate to a few feet almost
all the time.
Without the hardware you get latitude and longitude to the same precision.
"...current state of the art,..."  devices go well beyond this.

To say that these devices are in error by the amounts you claim requires
that you know precisely where you are. This is difficult without survey
equipment once you get off road.



>
> --
> Alan White,
> in England's Lake District.
> http://ds.dial.pipex.com/alan.lesley/






Subject: Re: Lost priceless, worthless hat on Offa's Path
From: Kevin Harrison (kevin.harrison9@virgin.net)

Likewise - I lost a blue lowe alpine cap on Ulscarf a couple of weeks ago.
Had it for ages - you get attached to these things!

Anyone found it?

Kevin






Subject: Re: Skye Campsites
From: Fiona Leppard (fiona@leppardf.freeserve.co.uk)


I'd agree with most of what Paul has to say about Glen Brittle but......
DON'T pitch anywhere near the gravelled track through the campsite. We did
and after 3 am were awakened every 15 minutes or so by some very early
starting walkers crunching their way on to the hills.
Otherwise it is fairly peaceful.

Fiona

>Glen Brittle:
>
>4.50 per person/night.
>
>Well stocked site shop. Bogs average.
>
>Situated by the beach, the white noise from the sea is soothing after
>a long trek.
>
>No noise after 2300hrs (site rule) - We liked this after three
>sleepless nights in the noisy Sligachan.
>
>Handy for all but the northern three of the Cuillin ridge hills.
>
>It persisted down (non-stop) for 24hrs whilst we were there and none
>of the pitches seemed boggy.
>
>Perhaps most important of all - the tent pegs went into the ground
>without the need of a Kango jack-hammer!  The site is on low-lying
>mature dunes and since the sand is mainly of Gabbro origin it seems
>to grip the pegs better than one might imagine.
>
>No games machines etc. for children.
>
>This is really a quiet site aimed at walkers/climbers.
>
>Marks out of ten (subjective):  Sligachan 5/10  Glen Brittle 8/10
>
>--
>Cheers,
>
>Paul (Compo) Simonite, Caithness
>






Subject: Re: WTD: Garmin GPS III Plus
From: Alan White (alan.lesley@dial.pipex.com)

On Sun, 4 Jul 1999 14:30:52 -0700, "Ivor Tightbeat"
<tightbeat@nationwideisp.net> wrote:

>Will any of these GPS translate to OS grid references?.............Ivor

They will.

-- 
Alan White,
in England's Lake District.
http://ds.dial.pipex.com/alan.lesley/




Subject: Re: GPS
From: Alan White (alan.lesley@dial.pipex.com)

On Sun, 4 Jul 1999 11:07:14 -0700, "Michael Painter"
<mpainter@inreach.com> wrote:

>
>The statement:
>"That is broadly true but at the current state of the art, and I write
>as an enthusiastic GPS user for the last four years, they _must_ be
>used and interpreted with an understanding of their limitations."
>
>is what prompted my reply. Inexpensive devices today will give a precision
>that will, with added hardware allow you to say that you are standing on the
>southeast corner of  4th and main. They are accurate to a few feet almost
>all the time.
>Without the hardware you get latitude and longitude to the same precision.
>"...current state of the art,..."  devices go well beyond this.
>
>To say that these devices are in error by the amounts you claim requires
>that you know precisely where you are. This is difficult without survey
>equipment once you get off road.

But I don't want to carry additional hardware when I'm hill walking to
achieve an accuracy which is meaningless in terms of the map I'm
using.

I suspect that the terms accuracy and precision are being used
loosely.

The typical hand held sub-300ukp GPS has a precision of one metre,
i.e. the OS grid reference is displayed as five figures for eastings
and five figures for northings. That doesn't mean that it is accurate
to one metre, in fact due to ionospheric effects alone it will only be
accurate to 15 metres.

I am not claiming those errors, I am quoting them from the Selective
Availability specification and my own observation using the software
package SAWatch. Also when I overlay my downloaded track on to a
calibrated map image it's very easy indeed to see what the errors are.

It is also easy to find accurately surveyed points off-road. They're
called Trig Points. 

Can I suggest that we carry this on by e-mail as this subject has been
flogged to death in uk.rec.walking many times, uk.rec.climbing will
start shouting at us and we're drifting off topic for both.

-- 
Alan White,
in England's Lake District.
http://ds.dial.pipex.com/alan.lesley/




Subject: Re: Nevis "Mobile Phone" SOS
From: Michael Connell (mconnell@lineone.net)

It's actually on the other side of FW on the hillside above Corpach.

It can iirc just be seen from the campsite.

> Cellnet works fine both on the summit of Ben Nevis (there was no one
> else there to be annoyed, honest!) and at the campsite in Glen Nevis.  I
> can understand why line-of-sight can provide a signal on the summit: but
> assume that there must be an antenna associated with the TV transceiver
> on the hill between Fort W and the Glen to get a phone signal at the
> camp site.
>
> --
> Ken Lussey
> lussey@(nospam)arachnid.co.uk
> http://www.arachnid.co.uk/






Subject: Re: Macabre find
From: Gordon Harris (gordon1@g3snx.demon.co.uk)

>
>> Sounds more like Glasgow Rangers fans were responsible.
>> Malcolm

>I take it your a Celtic fan then???
>
>Ewan

<pedant>
There, now.   That looks neater and more logical, doesn't it, with the
irrelevant bit snipped, and the reply following the quoted bit.   :-)
</>
It seems to be getting a habit on this ng to quote *everything* and put
the reply first.
-- 
Gordon1




Subject: Fenland Ramblers Website #2
From: FenRambler (fenrambler@aol.com)

Seems like I forgot to supply a URL for the site.

Try  http://members.aol.com/fenrambler/index.htm

Regards

Ken




Subject: HI, ALL YEAR ROUND
From: Margot O'Brien (margot@croftcroy.demon.co.uk)

HI,      WE OFFER EN-SUITE ACCOMMODATION ALL YEAR ROUND, OUR ROOMS
OVERLOOK THE MOUNTAINS YET, WE ARE ONLY A SHORT DISTANCE FROM INVERNESS.
(THE CAPITAL OF THE HIGHLANDS) THERE ARE MANY BEAUTIFUL PLACES TO WALK
NEARBY, FOR THOSE MORE SERIOUS AND THE BEGINNER.
THOUGH I HAVE NEVER BEEN A COMMITTED "WALKER" LIVING HERE HAS SPARKED AN
INTEREST AND AN APPRECIATION OF THE COUNTRYSIDE. 
OUR PRICES ARE VERY AFFORDABLE, MUCH LOWER THAN THE QUALITY OF SERVICE
WE OFFER.BOOKINGS FOR 4 PERSONS + RECEIVE A DISCOUNT.
WE HAVE RECENTLY ADDED THE OPTION OF 2 ROUNDS OF GOLF PER DAY (MON.---
fRI) AT THE LOCH NESS GOLF COURSE WHICH IS ONLY A 10 MIN. DRIVE FROM
HERE.
INCIDENTALLY, WE HAVE A STONE CIRCLE AND BURIAL CHAMBER IN THE REAR
GARDEN.
PLEASE CONTACT US IF YOU REQUIRE FURTHER INFO.
-- 

-- 
walking, and country B & B
-- 
Margot O'Brien




Subject: Re: litter in the Lakes
From: Martin Richardson (martinr@thequiff.demon.co.uk)

My motto:

For every piece of litter you drop, pick up two.

Welcome to the (~uiff Woodsave  

Martin Richardson               martinr@thequiff.demon.co.uk







Subject: Mindless Vandalism
From: Nick Croome (newsagent@nospamcroome.clara.net)

Yesterday, Saturday the 2nd July, as I walked the ridge path towards
Twyn Talycefn in the Black Mountains, I came across the letters TIM
freshly cut into the turf in one of the few areas where the grass has
managed to recover (SO2331).

I don't suppose for a minute that Tim will read this but if he does I
am pleased to tell him I managed to find and replace the missing
turves.  All except the dot from the letter "i" which I filled in with
nice fresh sheep droppings!
--
Nick  (No NoSpam to e-mail)




Subject: Re: Cotswold camping
From: Paul Richardson (paulrichardson@milkwood.cix.co.uk)

Storm Imaging wrote:

> This problem is not specific to Cotswold

Yes, I'm sure that's true. However, F&T responded the same day I 
emailed them (but they didn't have what I wanted). I guess e-commerce 
has a way to go yet :-)

--
Paul Richardson
paulrichardson@milkwood.cix.co.uk




Subject: Re: Nevis "Mobile Phone" SOS
From: Martin Richardson (martinr@thequiff.demon.co.uk)

In article <pePf3.13459$Ew6.7562@newreader.ukcore.bt.net>, Michael
Connell <mconnell@lineone.net> writes
>It's actually on the other side of FW on the hillside above Corpach.
>
>It can iirc just be seen from the campsite.
>
What a shame. It must spoil the view. Anyone know how to blow up mobile
phone masts?

Welcome to the (~uiff Woodsave  

Martin Richardson               martinr@thequiff.demon.co.uk








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Subject: Re: eejit
From: David Springthorpe (dspringy@one.net.au)

On Sat, 3 Jul 1999 10:58:51 +0100, "Peter Jones" <Peter.A.Jones@tesco.net>
wrote:

>aka idiot - Irish - don't you get Father Ted over there?
>
>Pete's Website - http://homepages.tesco.net/~Peter.A.Jones/
>
>

This might have been meant for me.....yes,  "Father Ted" is shown in
Orstrilia.....it's currently being repeated in Syd-er-knee.....I never
watched it much as I always seemed to be away when it was on.....amusing,
but not absolutely my cup of tea.....

David Springthorpe,
Sydney NSW Australia.





Subject: Re: Sun protection from ordinary clothes
From: Peter Clinch (p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk)

Kevin West wrote:
> 
> I read/heard/saw somewhere that ordinary clothes such as poly-cotton
> shirts do not actually give much protection against the damaging
> effects of the sun.  Does anyone have any information on this topic.

If you pull a typical shirt to your eyes you can see through it, so
light gets through...  No guarantee that UV will be blocked.  Shirts
(and indeed other garments) designed for sun will often have an SPF
quoted on them.  Good outdoor shirts will have the sunblock effect taken
into account in the fabric selection.  Thicker stuff like, say,
Rohan/Regatta trouser polycotton is probably thick enough to keep it all
out anyway.

Pete.
-- 
Peter Clinch			University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637	Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177		Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk	http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/




Subject: Re: HI, ALL YEAR ROUND
From: Callum Sword (callum_sword@owl.co.uk)

Margot O'Brien wrote:

> SNIP
> --
>
> --
> walking, and country B & B
> --
> Margot O'Brien

So your Caps Lock key *isn't* broken, then?
There's no need for all the capital letters, really.








Subject: Re: Skye Campsites
From: Paul Simonite (stationhouse@zetnet.co.uk)

The message <377F8FF1.DDFD6856@inforamp.net>
  from  "William R. Brabender, CGA" <billb@inforamp.net> contains these words: 

> Why pay 4.50 pp for a campsite at Glen Brittle when the SYHA hostel is
> just about 6.00 UK pounds???

A fair point Bill.  We were members of the SYHA until this year.  We 
used the hostels infrequently and the annual fee plus overnight fees 
were costing more than it was worth.  However, I do agree that a 
warm, dry hostel is preferable to a cold wet tent.  Most of our 
nights out are (careful) wildcamps and thus totally free.
-- 
Cheers,

Paul (Compo) Simonite, Caithness





Subject: Re: Nevis "Mobile Phone" SOS
From: Callum Sword (callum_sword@owl.co.uk)

belgrave wrote:

> Dunno - but my vodophone works perfectly
> well on the summit of Ben Nevis.
>

Wonder where the nearest mast is, then?

Hmm, mobile phones good, mountain bikes bad...   discuss.   (joke).





Subject: Re: litter in the Lakes
From: Michael Farthing (mf@cyclades.demon.co.uk)

In article <zXS1aBAMj9f3EwrW@thequiff.demon.co.uk>
           martinr@thequiff.demon.co.uk "Martin Richardson" writes:

> My motto:
> 
> For every piece of litter you drop, pick up two.

But Martin, 0 x 2 = 0.
I now understand why chanting of tables at school was so valuable.

-- 
Michael Farthing
cyclades
software house







Subject: Knoydart/stalking
From: Paul Simonite (stationhouse@zetnet.co.uk)

Hi,

Now that the Knoydart Estate is in new hands does anyone know how it 
will affect walkers during the stalking season?
-- 
Cheers,

Paul (Compo) Simonite, Caithness





Subject: Re: ME Annurpurna Down JKT
From: Matt Schofield (mattsc@sco.deletethisbit.com)

Peter Jones wrote:
> 
> Is that the Matt who joined BW Mud when I did?
> 
> Pete's Website - http://homepages.tesco.net/~Peter.A.Jones/

Not last time I checked. Sorry.

P.S. Like the website. 

Terar

Matt Schofield
-- 
Return email address junked




Subject: Re: Macabre find
From: Gavin Whittaker (ah05@holyrood.ed.ac.uk)

W.D.Grey (Bill@graigroad.demon.co.uk) wrote:

: Everyone so far has *assumed* it was one sheep!
: It may have been one leg from each of four sheep:-)

  It could have also been a Damien Hurst jigsaw puzzle.  You always seem
to lose that last piece...

    Gavin




Subject: Re: GPS
From: Vicki Portman (vportman@uptails.removethisfreeserve.co.uk)

Since you all now seem to be uk.rec.wa*king afficionados, now, *please,
please, please* can you trim your headers.  This was a seriously boring
discussion the last time it appeared.  And the time before that.

Cheers

Vicki






Subject: Re: GPS
From: Gordon Harris (gordon1@g3snx.demon.co.uk)

In article <37811099.138500230@news.dial.pipex.com>, Alan White
<alan.lesley@dial.pipex.com> writes
>
>I thought we were discussing (yet again :-( ) typical hand held units
>used by the average walker or climber. Not many of these require
>centimetric accuracy,

Exactly!
>
>OTOH a cheap way of achieving five metre accuracy is to stay in the
>same place for 24 hours and average. I sometimes think that wouldn't
>be a bad thing for some of the contributors to these newsgroups.
>
ROTFL!  Meanwhile the GPS12 which was merely tracking our position most
of yesterday settled yet another slight disagreement as to the direction
we should be heading at one point.
It was a humid day and plenty of distractions along the way, hence the 3
nav errors I made which would have been avoided if I had waypointed the
whole route, and would have saved us a couple of extra miles.
It didn't matter on a warm summer's day, but when the days are shorter a
GPS can be invaluable, as those who use them are well aware.

(I think I'm going to have to kill on GPS threads though, so much
rubbish is talked about their inaccuracy).
-- 
Gordon1




Subject: Re: Sun protection from ordinary clothes
From: Jeremy Double (j.m.double@bradford.ac.uk)



Peter Clinch wrote:

> If you pull a typical shirt to your eyes you can see through it, so
> light gets through...  No guarantee that UV will be blocked.  Shirts
> (and indeed other garments) designed for sun will often have an SPF
> quoted on them.  Good outdoor shirts will have the sunblock effect taken
> into account in the fabric selection.  Thicker stuff like, say,
> Rohan/Regatta trouser polycotton is probably thick enough to keep it all
> out anyway.

Rohan test all of their garments, and quote the SPFs in the
catalogue and in the shops.  But they're not cheap...

-- 
Jeremy Double <J.M.Double@bradford.ac.uk>




Subject: Re: Knoydart/stalking
From: Clive Harris (clive.harris@btinternet.com)

I believe the Knoydart Foundation views the controlled development of
stalking on the Estate as one of their key sources of income over the long
term. Certainly, when I was in Inverie recently, there were many signs
urging walkers to contact the appropriate parties before setting out
backpacking during the stalking season. This said, I think the Foundation
also welcomes walkers and other visitors, so I guess they're seeking an
amicable balance.

Clive Harris.

Paul Simonite <stationhouse@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1999070509034382004@zetnet.co.uk...
> Hi,
>
> Now that the Knoydart Estate is in new hands does anyone know how it
> will affect walkers during the stalking season?
> --
> Cheers,
>
> Paul (Compo) Simonite, Caithness
>






Subject: Re: Sun protection from ordinary clothes
From: Peter Clinch (p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk)

Gordon Harris wrote:

> I suggest a simple test.    After a few days walking in the summer, take
> a look at yourself in the mirror before dressing.
> Do you notice any difference in the colour of your skin where your
> clothing finished?   Nuff said.

Not really.  I notice a difference between my hands and arms right now
after paddling round Norway for a fortnight in a long sleeve top, but I
also notice a difference between my arms and my chest which had a thick
buoyancy aid over it.  You will get *some* protection from just about
anything, the thing that matters is whether it's enough, like the
difference between Factor 2 cream and Factor 30.

Pete.
-- 
Peter Clinch			University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637	Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177		Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk	http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/




Subject: Re: Mull ferries
From: Ann Apps (ann.apps@mcc.ac.uk)

As other people have already said, the choice is between the
Oban-Craignure ferry which you probably need to book on a Saturday, or
the Lochaline-Fishnish which you cannot book, and which runs about every
hour during the day (from about 9am to 6pm). I believe that it runs on
Sunday during the Summer but not during ther Winter (ie. from about end
October). This latter ferry is probably the better option from Fort
William.
There is also Kilchoan-Tobermory if you want a longer boat ride, after a
much longer drive. But it doesn't take many cars. I had a very hairy
experience on that ferry in a rough sea last autumn - exciting if you
like that sort of thing! All praise to Caledonian Macbrayne and the
ferry crew that we got back to Tobermory safely.

    Ann

Paul Simonite wrote:

> Can anyone recommend a good route to Mull from the north (Fort Bill)
> please?  We shall be travelling next Friday and looking for a ferry
> about mid afternoon out and return Sat PM or Sun AM.

--
Mrs. Ann Apps. Manchester Computing, University of Manchester,
                    Oxford Road, Manchester, M13 9PL, UK.
Tel: +44 161 275 6039  Fax: +44 161 275 6040
Email: Ann.Apps@mcc.ac.uk






Subject: Re: Sun protection from ordinary clothes
From: Peter Clinch (p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk)

Jeremy Double wrote:

> Rohan test all of their garments, and quote the SPFs in the
> catalogue and in the shops.  But they're not cheap...

Indeed.  Bought rather less of their stuff since the seconds department
in Edinburgh was discontinued, but at least they seem to have frequent
sales where the prices descend from outrageous to merely a bit on the
high side...

Pete.
-- 
Peter Clinch			University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637	Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177		Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk	http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/




Subject: Re: GPS
From: John Sargeant (johns@cs.man.ac.uk)


In article <377C9B4A.867519D7@nortelnetworks.comNOSPAM>, Philip Shore <pshore@nortelnetworks.comNOSPAM> writes:
> 
> 
> Paul Brooks wrote:
> 
> > I hate to get drawn in to yet another boring GPS v map & compass slanging
> > match, but this is bloody dangerous. Your GPS is not accurate enough to keep
> > you clear of the dangers on Ben Nevis summit (or many other places). Learn
> > the descent route and you only need your compass and competence to get off
> > safely.
> 
> Why do so many people think that GPS users are going to follow it that
> closely ?!?
> 
> People do look where they are going. If you can't see where you are
> going to put your feet then you are in trouble - probably best to stay
> put. 
> 
> Phil.

Phil,
  the problem with the summit of Ben Nevis is that the "obvious" descent
line is along the edge of the cliffs. You can't see the cliffs because
the snow you are walking on in the mist overhangs them....

It's therefore important to aim off some way to the left
for the first part of the descent. (I don't have a map to hand;
Storer gives the bearing and distance in "100 best walks").

Of course this isn't an argument against GPS per se, but it's a good
example of how naive use of such could be dangerours.

  John




Subject: Re: GPS
From: Alan White (alan.lesley@dial.pipex.com)

On Mon, 5 Jul 1999 10:38:54 +0100, Gordon Harris
<Gordon1@g3snx.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>...
>ROTFL!...

I'm not. It must be pretty obvious that I'm becoming more and more
irritated.

>...
>(I think I'm going to have to kill on GPS threads though, so much
>rubbish is talked about their inaccuracy).

...and their accuracy, which is what I find worrying.

Oh well...

(Posted to ukrw only.)

-- 
Alan White,
in England's Lake District.
http://ds.dial.pipex.com/alan.lesley/




Subject: Re: litter in the Lakes
From: Martin Richardson (martinr@thequiff.demon.co.uk)

In article <931160958snz@cyclades.demon.co.uk>, Michael Farthing
<mf@cyclades.demon.co.uk> writes
>In article <zXS1aBAMj9f3EwrW@thequiff.demon.co.uk>
>           martinr@thequiff.demon.co.uk "Martin Richardson" writes:
>
>> My motto:
>> 
>> For every piece of litter you drop, pick up two.
>
>But Martin, 0 x 2 = 0.
>I now understand why chanting of tables at school was so valuable.
>
I admire your superior mathematical knowledge. I must have been off
school with an attack of pre-senile dementia that day.

How's about:

'For every piece of litter you see, pick up one - for every piece of
litter you drop, pick up two - for every piece of litter you don't drop,
pick up three.'

I realise that it still presents a mathematical challenge - but I bet
there is a branch of mathematics where 0 x n = n. 



Welcome to the (~uiff Woodsave  

Martin Richardson               martinr@thequiff.demon.co.uk

Does anyone know how to demolish mobile phone masts?





Subject: Re: Sun protection from ordinary clothes
From: Gordon Harris (gordon1@g3snx.demon.co.uk)

In article <3780787E.C329E78F@dundee.ac.uk>, Peter Clinch
<p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk> writes
>Kevin West wrote:
>> 
>> I read/heard/saw somewhere that ordinary clothes such as poly-cotton
>> shirts do not actually give much protection against the damaging
>> effects of the sun.  Does anyone have any information on this topic.
>
I suggest a simple test.    After a few days walking in the summer, take
a look at yourself in the mirror before dressing.
Do you notice any difference in the colour of your skin where your
clothing finished?   Nuff said. 
-- 
Gordon1




Subject: Re: litter in the Lakes
From: Peter Jones (peter.a.jones@tesco.net)

This reply makes my point - there is a section of the public that thinks
littering is inevitable - it's NOT. "For every piece of litter you drop pick
up two....."? What kind of logic is that - don't drop ANY litter - and when
I say litter that also includes those disgusting cigarette butts that some
otherwise responsible people do not seem to consider as being litter. Eh?

Pete's Website - http://homepages.tesco.net/~Peter.A.Jones/






Subject: Re: GPS
From: Alan White (alan.lesley@dial.pipex.com)

On Sun, 4 Jul 1999 21:13:40 +0100, "Vicki Portman"
<vportman@uptails.REMOVETHISfreeserve.co.uk> wrote:

>Since you all now seem to be uk.rec.wa*king afficionados, now, *please,
>please, please* can you trim your headers.  This was a seriously boring
>discussion the last time it appeared.  And the time before that.
>

Sorry Vicki. I'm trying to get the discussion on to e-mail. If I
succeed do I get a piece of your famous cake?

-- 
Alan White,
in England's Lake District.
http://ds.dial.pipex.com/alan.lesley/




Subject: Re: Macabre find
From: W.D.Grey (bill@graigroad.demon.co.uk)

In article <7lpu41$jmu$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>, Gavin Whittaker
<ah05@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> writes
> It could have also been a Damien Hurst jigsaw puzzle.  You always seem
>to lose that last piece...
The tail?
-- 
Bill
http://www.graigroad.demon.co.uk




Subject: Re: eejit
From: Dave Cox (cox@cableinetnospam.co.uk)

There is a Farther Ted Website!!

--

Coxie, the Scouse Manc
Remove nospam from my address to reply
ICQ 21559285
dacox@cableinet.nospamco.uk

Michael Painter wrote in message ...
>
>Peter Jones <Peter.A.Jones@tesco.net> wrote in message
>news:7lkn6v$9hr$1@epos.tesco.net...
>> aka idiot - Irish - don't you get Father Ted over there?
>>
>> Pete's Website - http://homepages.tesco.net/~Peter.A.Jones/
>
>I figured out idiot but now you'll have to tell us about Father Ted.
>I should warn you in advance that if you think he is a wacko religious nut,
>you ain't seen nothing until you've seen and heard some of them here in the
>US.
>
>






Subject: Re: GPS
From: Philip Shore (pshore@nortelnetworks.comnospam)

John Sargeant wrote:
> 
> In article <377C9B4A.867519D7@nortelnetworks.comNOSPAM>, Philip Shore <pshore@nortelnetworks.comNOSPAM> writes:
> >

> Phil,
>   the problem with the summit of Ben Nevis is that the "obvious" descent
> line is along the edge of the cliffs. You can't see the cliffs because
> the snow you are walking on in the mist overhangs them....
> 
> It's therefore important to aim off some way to the left
> for the first part of the descent. (I don't have a map to hand;
> Storer gives the bearing and distance in "100 best walks").

It sounds like a very interesting walk indeed!
It's beyond my ability and experience and I hope others can make that
important decision too.

> Of course this isn't an argument against GPS per se, but it's a good
> example of how naive use of such could be dangerours.

Yes, I totally agree. Everybody who goes out in such challenging
environments should know the limitations of themselves and their
equipment.

With a GPS I know that for 99.9% of readings you can be 100m off your
real position (GPS's view of the sky and accuracy you read a map at
permitting). With a compass the accuracy can be very good if you can see
your start and finish points and then goes down the further you walk
without being able to check your bearing.

I guess the real problem is that people always want a challenge and we
will find people out in these conditions who do not have enough
experience. Most will get away with it and some will not.

Phil.


PS....

There is a further problem. GPS has only in the last few years come
become affordable for the masses and everybody is still learning. All
the information needed to understand the limitations of GPS's can be
found on http://joe.mehaffey.com. Every owner should learn how to use
one and practise before they use it as their main navigation tool. I
must admit, the manual for my GPS is very much lacking in accuracy
information and not everybody has web access.

As always with technology, people don't take the time to learn about it.
Also they will just listen to what other people say without checking
those facts. This is a big problem at the moment - I have seen so many
people get their facts wrong making it a game of Chinese wispers.




Subject: Re: litter in the Lakes
From: Zeus Computer Graphi (zeus@cix.compulink.co.uk)

> there is a section of the public that thinks
> littering is inevitable -
My least favourites, currently, are smokers.
Why do they feel they can chuck the butts anywhere, even out of the car 
window ignoring the ash tray, 
I have a friend who does this but claims to be anti litter!

Mark




Subject: GR20 info
From: Nigel Venables (venablesn@parliament.uk)

for the 2nd two weeks in September I maybe thinking about doing the GR20(or
at least attempting).  Does anyone know of a good web site which details the
route.

Has anyone out there actually done it and can offer advice, especially about
the hostels, food availability, etc.

All comments would be greatly appreciated

Nigel venablesn@parliament.uk






Subject: Re: Hamish Brown
From: Simon Caldwell (simonatgetrealsystemsdotcom)

I believe it's been republished recently by Baton Wicks, in an edition with
Hamish's Mountain Walk.

S.

john david myers wrote in message <7lj3v4$rv6$8@gxsn.com>...
>Well ive tried everywhere....Id like a copy of Hamishes Groats end
>Walk......cant sem to find one.Anyone know the publisher, and if its now
out
>of print.
>thanks
>jdm
>
>"Keep Scotland Bonnie"
>
>






Subject: Re: Parking for munros
From: Simon Caldwell (simonatgetrealsystemsdotcom)


Surfer! wrote in message ...
>
>Of course Ben Nevis will probably only be quiet on foul weather on the
>'tourist' path - but then the CMD arete was pretty quiet in May one
>year, and so was Tower Ridge in September another year.


About 5 years ago we went up Tower Ridge on the Saturday of the (2nd) May
Bank Holiday weekend, and met no-one until we reached the plateau.
Beautiful sunny weather, clouds clear of the tops.  The only explanation we
could think of was that there was still a lot of snow about - we saw one
party doing an ice climb - but we didn't need axes/crampons.

S.







Subject: Re: Skye Campsites
From: Simon Caldwell (simonatgetrealsystemsdotcom)

With a hostel in a popular area, you need to book in advance.  In a campsite
you just turn up.
And most hostels (especially those outside Scotland) are ridiculously
expensive, in the Lake District it can be cheaper to stay in a B&B.
Also if the person in the next bunk snores loudly I sleep not at all :-(
And finally, I prefer camping :-)

S.

William R. Brabender, CGA wrote in message
<377F8FF1.DDFD6856@inforamp.net>...
>Why pay 4.50 pp for a campsite at Glen Brittle when the SYHA hostel is
>just about 6.00 UK pounds???
>
>I have stayed at the hostel not the campsite, so I am just curious why
>one would choose the campsite if the difference is so small.
>
>Bill
>







Subject: Re: Hamish Brown
From: David Gruar (david@remove_me.gruar.clara.net)


Simon Caldwell <simonATgetrealsystemsDOTcom> wrote in message
news:931191185.3590.0.nnrp-07.c1ed0e5f@news.demon.co.uk...
> I believe it's been republished recently by Baton Wicks, in an edition
with
> Hamish's Mountain Walk.
>

No, you're confusing it with Climbing the Corbetts, which is indeed
published with H'sMW. I don't know about H'sGEW though.


--
David
david@remove-me.gruar.clara.net
(Remove ovbious to reply)

>
> john david myers wrote in message <7lj3v4$rv6$8@gxsn.com>...
> >Well ive tried everywhere....Id like a copy of Hamishes Groats end
> >Walk......cant sem to find one.Anyone know the publisher, and if its now
> out
> >of print.
> >thanks
> >jdm
> >
> >"Keep Scotland Bonnie"
> >
> >
>
>







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Subject: Re: GPS
From: W.D.Grey (bill@graigroad.demon.co.uk)

In article <3785184f.0@news.netdirect.net.uk>, Matti Lamprhey
<matti@polka.bikini> writes
>Surely this must happen if, as seems inevitable, GPS is to be used for
>in-vehicle navigation systems.
Can't wait to see who'll be first to drive a 4X4 off the top of the Ben
in a whiteout;-0
-- 
Bill
http://www.graigroad.demon.co.uk




Subject: Re: GPS
From: W.D.Grey (bill@graigroad.demon.co.uk)

In article <7m2aof$srq$1@m1.cs.man.ac.uk>, John Sargeant
<johns@cs.man.ac.uk> writes
>Actually, last time I was there (early May last year) you could see 100 miles
>and there were people sunbathing on top.

Probably waiting for a whiteout:-)
-- 
Bill
http://www.graigroad.demon.co.uk




Subject: Re: GPS
From: Matti Lamprhey (matti@polka.bikini)

Alex <alex@clockwork.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7m2sch$3g1$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Did I hear that selective availability is going to be switched off
> either next year or the yeat after ?

Surely this must happen if, as seems inevitable, GPS is to be used for
in-vehicle navigation systems.

Matti






Subject: Re: Lost priceless, worthless hat on Offa's Path
From: W.D.Grey (bill@graigroad.demon.co.uk)

In article <7lo7nr$j7$1@nclient5-gui.server.virgin.net>, Kevin Harrison
<kevin.harrison9@virgin.net> writes
>Likewise - I lost a blue lowe alpine cap on Ulscarf a couple of weeks ago.
>Had it for ages - you get attached to these things!
Until they become detached!

I'd rather give something away than lose it.
-- 
Bill
http://www.graigroad.demon.co.uk




Subject: Re: Karrimor backpack?
From: Peter Jones (peter.a.jones@tesco.net)

The Field & Trek catalogue (WHSmiths etc) has a whole bunch of different
replacement 'clips', buckles tec you can buy. The F&T website isn't up to
much but their phone number is.....01227 233122. Alternatively, decent
outdoor shops should have a binful of such things.

Pete's Website - http://homepages.tesco.net/~Peter.A.Jones/






Subject: Re: GPS
From: DS (dsnwz@dscs.demon.co.uk)

In article <3785184f.0@news.netdirect.net.uk>, Matti Lamprhey
<matti@polka.bikini> writes
>Alex <alex@clockwork.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:7m2sch$3g1$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
>> Did I hear that selective availability is going to be switched off
>> either next year or the yeat after ?
>
>Surely this must happen if, as seems inevitable, GPS is to be used for
>in-vehicle navigation systems.
>

These systems already work and use other sensors (on the drive shaft,
wheels, inertial compass) to smooth out SA. If really necessary they
could use real time DGPS which cancels SA - as used by surveyors.


-- 

Dominic Sexton
http://www.dscs.demon.co.uk/




Subject: Re: Irvine Butterfield - The High Mountains of Britain & Ireland
From: Chris Crocker (chris@biber.demon.co.uk)

I asked this question last year of Dave Hewitt, editor of TAC.  This is
an abridged version of his response - hope he won't mind me posting it.

****

If forced to say if this will ever happen, I'd say no. Almost every time
I've ever meet Irvine (maybe half a dozen times now) he has ranted about
this. Story seems to be that the words and pics have been ready for
several years, but he feels badly messed about by Ken Wilson at Baton
Wicks (whom I've never met). Problem, predictably, is money. Irvine
reckons it needs something like 100k to produce HM2, and Wilson simply
doesn't have this. But there are problems whereby, whilst not legally
tied up, Irvine feels he'd still like to go with Ken - clearly he has
the capacity to produce high quality big format books - witness HM1 and
the Big Walks series. But Ken seems to be chiefly churning out reissues
- all very nice but not exactly helping the overall situation re new
titles getting queued up. I dropped Ken a line re this a few months ago
<snip>  And with the general downturn in the hill-publishing market, no-
one else is very likely to come up with such a big sum. And as time goes
on, of course Irvine's data slips out of data, with numerous map/height
changes needing made most likely.


Chris

In article <1999070822070984972@zetnet.co.uk>, Donald Thomas
<d.thomas@zetnet.co.uk> writes
>I think Volume 2 was mostly written, but obtaining illustrations and 
>publishing caused too many problems.  He is launching a new book this 
>autumn: The Magic of the Munros.  I have seen the proofs and it is a 
>beautifully illustrated coffee table book with brief descriptions of 
>the hills but no routes.  It is to be launched publically at the 
>Dundee Mountain Film Festival (w/e of 27th November) and promoted the 
>following week in Edinburgh, Aberdeen (Tuesday), Glasgow (Heath 
>Building, Caledonian University, Thursday 2nd December) and 
>Inverness.  Details will go on the JMT local activities page nearer the time.
>Proceeds are to go to the John Muir Trust and it is already in the 
>Amazon on-line catalogue (and probably also http://www.jamesthin.co.uk/ ).





Subject: Re: GPS
From: Martin Richardson (martinr@thequiff.demon.co.uk)

In article <LOepFIADCSh3EwNZ@graigroad.demon.co.uk>, W.D.Grey
<Bill@graigroad.demon.co.uk> writes
>In article <7m2aof$srq$1@m1.cs.man.ac.uk>, John Sargeant
><johns@cs.man.ac.uk> writes
>>Actually, last time I was there (early May last year) you could see 100 miles
>>and there were people sunbathing on top.
>
>Probably waiting for a whiteout:-)

When I sunbathe it makes me go brown not white.

Welcome to the (~uiff Woodsave  

Martin Richardson               martinr@thequiff.demon.co.uk







Subject: Re: Karrimor backpack?
From: Chris Gilbert (chris.gilbert@ffs.nottingham.ac.uk)

Richard Welfare wrote:

>Any ideas? 

The likes of Yeomans and other 'surplus' stores are good for bits. I've 
replaced broken plastic clips from there before. You're unlikely to get the 
exact piece but you'll get something close enough.

Chris






Subject: Re: it gets better
From: Chris Gilbert (chris.gilbert@ffs.nottingham.ac.uk)

Peter Jones wrote:

>>Peter "Preaching to the converted"<
>
>Meaning?

We all already agree with you

Chris






Subject: snowdonia campsites?
From: Ian Slater (ian@nospam.lowroad.freeserve.co.uk)

can anyone recommend a good campsite in snowdonia?

--
To reply remove NOSPAM from address.






Subject: Re: Looking for a word
From: Michael Farthing (mf@cyclades.demon.co.uk)

In article <vdHrlCAAQMh3Ewo8@g3snx.demon.co.uk>
           Gordon@g3snx.demon.co.uk "Gordon Harris" writes:

<snip - we've now had this bit at least 4 times>

> >Clearly one needs to be invented.
> >
> Someone already did: undulation(s).

Oh b...........!!  Now how on Earth has no one (including me) thought of
that till now.  Bang goes my hope of being the coiner of a new word.  And
I'd grown rather fond of my crosscontouration - better than that boring
updowness suggested in its stead.

-- 
Michael Farthing
cyclades
software house







Subject: Donald No Go Areas
From: Michael Farthing (mf@cyclades.demon.co.uk)

Christine and Timothy are disappearing to the boring South for the first
week in August so I'm planning to take a tent and find out about these
much applauded and little-visited Donalds.

I've decided either to visit the Galloway or the Moffatt hills.

Now last year there was a web site advertised here giving information about
shooting and stalking closures.  Can anyone recall where and does it still
exist?  Alternatively can anyone give me any info about whether I'll have
problems in the above areas.  The grouse shouldn't have started, but I think
the deer will have.

-- 
Michael Farthing
cyclades
software house







Subject: Re: GPS
From: Gavin Whittaker (ah05@holyrood.ed.ac.uk)

DS (dsnwz@dscs.demon.co.uk) wrote:
: In article <7m2sch$3g1$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>, Alex <alex@clockwork.free
: serve.co.uk> writes
: >
: >Did I hear that selective availability is going to be switched off
: >either next year or the yeat after ?

: You might have but officially the US government have only committed to
: switching it off "within ten years" of 1996!

  This week's New Scientist has it that it will not be switched off
until 2008.

  Gavin

*****************************************************************************
Dr. A.G. Whittaker - Dept. of Chemistry, King's buildings, West Mains
		     Rd., Edinburgh.  EH9 3JJ.                               
                     Tel: 0131 6504800.  Fax: 0131 6504743.             
                     email: ah05@holyrood.ed.ac.uk                      
*****************************************************************************





Subject: Re: litter in the Lakes
From: Simon Caldwell (simonatgetrealsystemsdotcom)


Mark Wilden wrote in message <7m2q79$3k1$1@usenet49.supernews.com>...
>
>If you pick up one candy wrapper ...

Ah, now it's all becoming clear, you're a Merkin!

;-)

S.







Subject: Re: Karrimor backpack?
From: gmt (g.m.tardivel@ukc.ac.uk)

In article <7m2vi3$716$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>,
Richard Welfare <richardwelfare@wilfworld.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>This might be off-topic but here goes...
>
>My idiot of a brother has just returned my much-loved Karrimor Karibou
>Series backpack (the big blue-and-red one with a frame, which I've had for
>13 years) from Glastonbury with a broken plastic clip on the strap. This is
>more than slightly annoying, but hopefully replaceable. My question is:
>where to get one from? I tried Millets but they're bl**dy useless. Also, the
>Karrimor web sites (both ".com" and ".co.uk", if that makes sense), don't
>seem to be working.
>
>Any ideas? I can't really justify replacing it, but it can come in damn
>useful.

Depends how useless the Millets was. Another branch may be more use.
The Canterbury Branch has let me rummage through their box of loose 
plastic fasteners to find one I liked to repair a day rucksack.  I took 
the strongest looking one. They didn't charge me.

Pennine Outdoor sell a series of buckles and fasteners.  
http://www.penout.force9.co.uk/tentclo_ac.html  

Haven't bought these but my other experiences of the firm have been pretty good.
And they are very helpful on the 'phone.

Jill T.





Subject: Re: Karrimor backpack?
From:  (mike.swann@compaq.com)

In article <7m2vi3$716$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>,
  "Richard Welfare" <richardwelfare@wilfworld.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> This might be off-topic but here goes...
>
> My idiot of a brother has just returned my much-loved Karrimor Karibou
> Series backpack (the big blue-and-red one with a frame, which I've had for
> 13 years) from Glastonbury with a broken plastic clip on the strap. This is
> more than slightly annoying, but hopefully replaceable. My question is:
> where to get one from? I tried Millets but they're bl**dy useless. Also, the
> Karrimor web sites (both ".com" and ".co.uk", if that makes sense), don't
> seem to be working.
>
> Any ideas? I can't really justify replacing it, but it can come in damn
> useful.
>
>

I was looking for a replacement buckle for my Beghaus Delta a few years ago. 
Phoned them and they sent one frre of charge.

Try phoning Karrimor on 01254 893000 (contact no in the Aug Climber).

Mike


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.




Subject: Re: snowdonia campsites?
From: Peter Jones (peter.a.jones@tesco.net)

The two rough campsites near Llyn Ogwen to the north of Tryfan are both nice
places so long as you've got transport.

Pete's Website - http://homepages.tesco.net/~Peter.A.Jones/






Subject: Re: it gets better
From: Peter Jones (peter.a.jones@tesco.net)

Yes you're probably right (I thought you were insinuating I used to smoke -
perish the thought). I only posted it up because I was so incensed at what
I'd seen that afternoon. However, it seems to have got people talking, and
if only one or two people don't drop any more fag ends it was worth doing I
think. Change of subject?

Pete's Website - http://homepages.tesco.net/~Peter.A.Jones/






Subject: Pyrenees maps?
From: Donald Macleod (donald@sandwood.demon.co.uk)

Any internet supplier of Pyrenees maps (mainly French?)

ta in advance
-- 
Donald Macleod
Edinburgh, Scotland
donald@sandwood.demon.co.uk





Subject: Are you gonna go my way?
From: Hans (webmaster@ppp.com)

Go here and visit my page about walking:

http://members.tripod.com/Enajas/





Subject: Re: Walking Motivation
From: mumzy (harryskid@bigfoot.com)


David Rogers wrote in message
>I try to schedule regular fitness walks but find that I sometimes have
>trouble staying motivated.  I would like to correspond with someone
>with the same problem so that we may encourage each other.
> If you are interested, please E mail me at:
>                        davidr8@hotmail.com

Hi, I am also "new" at walking.  I subscribed to this news group as a
motivator, but I'm not sure if I fit in here.  Can't do a mile a day, let
alone 5 or 6.  I guess I'll keep reading, walking and hoping I'll become a
"miler" some day then work on becoming a multiple miler.

 Let's not give up hope.  Tell you what, I'll walk around the block, then
you walk around the block and we'll be breatheless together, eh?






Subject: Re: Walking Motivation
From: John Wayman (trecker@bigpond.com)

That's why most of us join a walking club.

Someone else can decide an interesting place to walk, all you have to do is
turn up at the designated time (with the right gear).


Cheers
John Wayman


mumzy <harryskid@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:zeRh3.4776$bt1.23115@news1.atl...
>
> David Rogers wrote in message
> >I try to schedule regular fitness walks but find that I sometimes have
> >trouble staying motivated.  I would like to correspond with someone
> >with the same problem so that we may encourage each other.
> > If you are interested, please E mail me at:
> >                        davidr8@hotmail.com
>
> Hi, I am also "new" at walking.  I subscribed to this news group as a
> motivator, but I'm not sure if I fit in here.  Can't do a mile a day, let
> alone 5 or 6.  I guess I'll keep reading, walking and hoping I'll become a
> "miler" some day then work on becoming a multiple miler.
>
>  Let's not give up hope.  Tell you what, I'll walk around the block, then
> you walk around the block and we'll be breatheless together, eh?
>
>






Subject: Re: Walking Motivation
From: Alan Vidler (avidler@pcug.org.au)

>That's why most of us join a walking club.
>
>Someone else can decide an interesting place to walk, all you have to do is
>turn up at the designated time (with the right gear).
>
errr....   
I hope some of "you", at least, plan on eventually becoming a "someone
else" who decides on interesting places to walk, plans and publicises
the trip, checks out new intending walkers, leads the walk, etc etc.

Every walking club I've ever been associated with has a chronic
shortage of leaders and is over-dependent on a few individuals to
provide a walks program. Note they are unpaid volunteers (in all areas
I've walked in anyway)

For your own safety & enjoyment I suggest you try & do a bit more than
"turn up ..".  Learn a bit about navigation etc etc so you can cope if
a problem arises such as seperated from party, or leader becomes
incapacitiated or ...  Planning on and actually leading trips is a
quick way to improve your own skills.

Cheers, Alan Vidler




Subject: Re: Walking Motivation
From: John Goldfine (johngoldfine@acadia.net)

David, for me walking is intensely pleasurable, physically and mentally, for
all my life as long ago as I can remember, so I don't really understand
about motivational problems.  It's the OTHER things I have to motivate
myself to do.

I do some physical training that isn't all that much fun--I run three hilly
miles three times a week and am in the gym an hour or so the other days,
pumping iron.  None of that is fun.  What motivates me?  I want to look as
sharp as an old guy can in front of someone I love.  I don't want to look
like the gutty wrecks my age (53) and younger I see everywhere, matter of
pride or vanity.  And I want to be able to walk and these other things help
me with that.

My advice is to find something physical you DO like to do and do it and save
I'll-do-it-if-it kills-me moral fortitude for refusing the second helping of
dessert.  Or fall in in love with a walker and, trust me, you'll have no
trouble picking them up and setting them down.
David Rogers wrote in message <378a75a7.3087114@news.eatel.net>...
>I try to schedule regular fitness walks but find that I sometimes have
>trouble staying motivated>                        davidr8@hotmail.com






Subject: Re: Marilyns
From: Martin Richardson (martinr@thequiff.demon.co.uk)

In article <#X7r3jwy#GA.476@cpmsnbbsa02>, J-Rollins <j-
rollins@email.msn.com> writes
>I may be naive here, but what is a Marilyn? - and why the name?

Coined by Alan Dawson. Refers to any hill in Britain that has a drop of
at least 150 metres on all sides between it and the next hill(s).
Doesn't matter how far it is to the next hill. Doesn't matter how steep,
beautiful, exciting or accessible the hill is. 

Why Marilyn? What's the surname of the most famous Marilyn (further
clues: now dead, had blonde hair, slept with a president). Surname
sounds like the surname of a certain Sir Hugh T. *****, Bart., of
Lindertis.

Geddit?

HTH

Welcome to the (~uiff Woodsave  

Martin Richardson               martinr@thequiff.demon.co.uk







Subject: Re: Donald No Go Areas
From: Mark Wilden (mark@wilden16.freeserve.co.uk)

Michael Farthing <mf@cyclades.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:931507949snz@cyclades.demon.co.uk...
>
> Now last year there was a web site advertised here giving information
about
> shooting and stalking closures.  Can anyone recall where and does it still
> exist?  Alternatively can anyone give me any info about whether I'll have
> problems in the above areas.  The grouse shouldn't have started, but I
think
> the deer will have.

Both species tend to opt for fairly low-calibre weapons, so you should be
fine.






Subject: Re: litter in the Lakes
From: Mark Wilden (mark@wilden16.freeserve.co.uk)

Matti Lamprhey <matti@polka.bikini> wrote in message
>
> I think litter encourages more litter in fact, which is an even stronger
> argument.

Good point.






Subject: John Muir Trail.
From: Alan White (alan.lesley@dial.pipex.com)

We're leaving on Friday to attempt the John Muir Trail, returning 4th
August.

If anyone would like us to search out information for them, other than
that readily available on the numerous web sites, let us know and
we'll see what we can do.

-- 
Alan White,
in England's Lake District.
http://www.alan.lesley.dial.pipex.com




Subject: Re: Virgin territory in the Lake District
From: Michael Farthing (mf@cyclades.demon.co.uk)

Arthur Rackman has the following splendid paragraph (abridged):

"This is how to write pseudo-history:
  1. Stick to the documents and do no fieldwork
  2. Rely on contemporary documents of a generalised kind -
     the things that learned writers said ... instead of
     the year-to-year records..
  3. Take the documents at face-value...
  4. Copy what other scholars have said, rather than going back
     to the original evidence
  5. n/a
  6. Generalise...
  7. Have an answer for everything, and never admit you don't know."

Now this bit was included not because Max is over-guilty, but more because
it has always struck me as a splendid critique of historians (and sadly
some other disciplines too), and its a good excuse to get it in.

Recognising that Max is engaged in a not-too-serious whimsy, and so
cannot be expected to bring the absolute highest standards of scholarship
to this subject, he nevertheless remains guilty on charges 1,2,3 and 6!

Thus:
  1.  To be attended to later
  2.  Re: Quoting of guesstimates of Lake District visitors
  3.  Ditto
  6.  The LD has been bitten off in a single chunk.

Roger and I, however, are only guilty on Charge 7.

So:  Time for some fieldwork:

          Michael and Timothy Hall Farthing Expeditions Ltd
          -------------------------------------------------

 Project to investigate the density of footfalls in the Lake District.
          Preliminary Report and Explanation of Methodology.

This major project, destined to last about another six years, (subject to
continued availability of funding) was commenced on Saturday July 10th 1999
with a test experiment on Ling Fell.

Methodology
-----------
  The experimenters ascend a well-known Wainwright taking careful note of
  all times and observing any human footfalls en route.  Footfalls are
  limited to those observed directly or indirectly during the period of the
  experiment.  Location of footfalls is also noted, in particular their
  proximity to paths evident on the ground or published.  From the numbers
  of footfalls so measured an estimate can be deduced of the likelihood of
  all points being covered.

  An important methodological aspect of these experiments is that the
  experimenters deliberately walk at half the normal speed of walkers
  to ensure that any walkers moving along the same route as the
  experimenters will overtake them and so be included in the reckoning.

  This is achieved by including a 3 year old in the experimentation team
  who not only walks more slowly but will insist on including other research
  interests (stopping to see if there are any ants nests under all the
  stones: interestingly enough there were only earwigs).

Results
-------
  During the period 11.25 to 13.48 on 11.7.99 Ling Fell was ascended by
  the only route specified by Wainwright.  7 people were encountered en
  route in three parties.  All were on this path.  On personal
  interrogation all made it clear that they intended to return by the same
  route.  No one was observed on any other part of the fell at any time
  during the experiment, including the only other known documented route
  (Bill Birkett).  In descent, Birkett's route was selected (by accident).
  This cuts directly down the hill and is steep and pathless.  This section
  of the work was subject to experimental error as the half-speed criterion
  was breached: One of Us (Timothy) exercised his right-established-by-custom
  to incidental shoulder rides during descent.  However, no humans were
  observed at any point during the descent.

  A rather curious observation was that all 3 parties encountered
  were carrying a copy of the relevant Wainright (NW Fells).

Conclusions
-----------
  This preliminary experiment at a peak-time on a Saturday in high season
  would suggest that earlier investigators' estimates of numbers both on the
  paths and off them is far too high.  The weather was warm and rain-free
  but admittedly overcast.  The investigators heroically postulate that
  the decreased number of low-level walkers would be exactly compensated
  for by higher-level walkers choosing lower routes free of cloud.

  We leave Max to do the arithmetic for the area of this fell, but point out
  that only one (and a half) people were seen away from the paths, and they
  must be discounted as they were experimenters.  The experimenters genuinely
  believe that given the small confines of this fell they probably saw the
  majority of people present on the fell at some point during the experimental
  period.

Limitations
-----------
  This experiment is really designed to deal with what might be termed the
  'dark matter' of the Lake District Universe, and then only the contemporary
  dark matter. [Though the argument that this is now greater than ever before
  is persuasive].

  So far no one has considered the effect of eruptions due to the Wedding
  Ring phenomenon:  Someone loses their wedding ring on the fell and an
  intensive search of a particular area is instituted, either with lots
  of people, or with the same people constantly scouring the same area.
  Other possible eruptions might involve (over the span of human history)
  fox hunting expeditions; druid religious ceremonies; prospecting
  for potential stone-axe factory sites; bracken burning;  Roman Army
  manouevres;  Cavalier and Roundhead battles; re-enactments of Cavalier
  and Roundhead battles etc etc.  These are likely to produce high density
  coverage of small areas in a very short timespan.

References
----------
  Birkett B.      The Complete Lakeland Fells
                  (Walk LOS3)
  Rackham A.      The Illustrated (yeah the coffee table version)
                  History of the Countryside (page 15).
  Wainwright A.   The North Western Fells
                  (Ling Fell)

Acknowledgements
----------------
  M and TH Farthing Expeditions gratefully acknowledge support and funding
  for this project provided by Christine (particularly the sausages).

-- 
Michael Farthing
cyclades
software house







Subject: Re: Virgin territory in the Lake District
From: Martin Richardson (martinr@thequiff.demon.co.uk)

In article <931685919snz@cyclades.demon.co.uk>, Michael Farthing
<mf@cyclades.demon.co.uk> writes
>Arthur Rackman has the following splendid paragraph (abridged):
>
{major snip}

In the time you took to write this you could have climbed another fell
by a route of your own invention and decreased the amount of virgin
territory.

How much of the Lake District does Richard Branson own?

Welcome to the (~uiff Woodsave  

Martin Richardson               martinr@thequiff.demon.co.uk







Subject: Re: Walking near Buttermere
From: Rob (xfx30@currantbun.com)


>Just can't resist plugging my pics of this walk yesterday at
>http://www.keswick.u-net.com/ldp.htm - sorry there are rather a lot but it
>was that sort of day with ever changing light conditions :)
>
Great Pics will keep my eye on this site in future, keep up the good work.

Rob Craven






Subject: Re: Walking Motivation
From: Laurence and Leanne Knight (l.knight@uq.net.au)

David Rogers wrote:
> 
> I try to schedule regular fitness walks but find that I sometimes have
> trouble staying motivated.  I would like to correspond with someone
> with the same problem so that we may encourage each other.
>         If you are interested, please E mail me at:
>                         davidr8@hotmail.com

Try going somewhere interesting for a change ... 
New challenges help to maintain the motivation

Regards, Laurie.




Subject: Re: Virgin territory in the Lake District
From: Max Beran (max@oldboot.demon.co.uk)

I'm afraid you are confusing two uses of the word random. In your case you
are thinking of the trail of footprints left by individual walkers and what
is in their mind as they choose their route, in my case I'm thinking of the
totality of footprints left behind by all walkers, farmers, waterworks
engineers etc etc irrespective of who left them, when they left them, and in
what sequence. The analogy with the shelling problem in the original posting
might help to clarify this distinction. Alternatively, think of a flight of
old stone steps. Clearly almost every individual behaves in a purposive
fashion when they climb up and down. In this sense their pattern of
footprints in not random. But in totality, what emerges over time is a
pattern of wear and tear that is often normally distributed with the
greatest wear in the middle.

Your familiarity with the normal distribution suggests that you may be
interested in the underlying theory which I would be happy to send you off
the board. You will see there that the solution rightly ignores multiple
visits to the same point. Once a point has been trodden on once that's it.
It can be re-trodden on as often as you like, but from the point of view of
this problem, the first visit was good enough to count it as a visited
point.

Your preoccupation with those areas that are either (i) bound to have been
walked upon, or (ii) are bound not to have been walked upon, is a bit of a
red herring. There are areas that are impossible to reach like lake beds,
cliff overhangs, under the foundations of buildings or wherever. Conversely,
there are points that are bound to be walked upon, such as in front of the
pay machine in the car park, along a beaten track, or the entrance to the
pub. These areas are not interesting - we know the answer. As you quote, I
removed them from the calculation by reducing the number of visitors by 99%
and reducing the official total area quoted by 5%. This way I focused the
problem on the in-between places that might or might not get walked upon. In
a somewhat light-hearted application like this is I don't think that
enormous verbal precision is appropriate.

The accuracy of the answer does not greatly depend on the area adjustment
but could go either way depending on the total number of visitors and the
percentage of them that stray from the beaten track. Your view is .01%,
others guesstimated 1% and that's the figure I used. If you are right, then
certainly there are unvisited points. There also remains the issue of how
many visitors in total are received. The National Park website says 14
million. But a back-of-envelope calculation with such a huge number would
imply that the M6 in the Kendal/Penrith area would be as busy as the M25
(180000 vehicles/day) and that they would almost all be heading to the Lake
District. Neither is true. I have also seen figures of 3 million visits/year
to Blackpool Pleasure Beach so I would rather go with my 1 million than with
the 14 million.

Roger Chapman wrote in message <1999071021502068959@zetnet.co.uk>...
>The message <931556660.19954.0.nnrp-06.c2de9a2e@news.demon.co.uk>
>  from  "Max Beran" <max@oldboot.demon.co.uk> contains these words:
>
>> I allow for the fact that people do not walk at random over the area as
>> a whole by assuming that 99% of visitors walke on 5% of the terrain. So
>> basically I make the assumption that footprints on this 95% are as good
>> as random. One does not consider individual people in this calculation,
>> only the pattern of footprints that are left behind by the totality of
>> all visits. If my basic numbers are about right, I don't think that any
>> departures from the assumption will perturb the conclusion.
>
>I suspect that 99% of LD visitors won't stray more than 25 yards from
>the tarmac. Of the remaining 1% 99% won't stray more than 25 yards
>from a path and less frequented paths might get visited at a rate
>very much below one a day. Distribution of footprints either side of
>the path line would be a normal distribution and I might well be
>generous in suggesting that 25 yards equates to 2 Standard Deviations.
>
>Even those who do not stick to the paths have a particular purpose in
>mind so do not behave in a random fashion.
>
>> Areas like bogs, lakes and cliffs are not part of the game because,
>> while it is certainly true that people have not trod on them in the
>> past, they will continue not to do so in future. So I remove them from
>> the calculation.
>
>I don't recall that you put any retrictions on the terrain under
>consideration but just for the record boggy areas near or on paths
>continue to receive their fair share of walkers and I am sure that
>the climbing fraternity would not accept that all climbable rock has
>now been located.
>
>Roger
>
>






Subject: campsites in sutherland
From: richie (richie@rhinog.demon.co.uk)

anyone know of any campsites in sutherland where it is permitted to have a
fire






Subject: Re: Pyrenees maps?
From:  (ton@wxs.nl)

http://home.wxs.nl/~marlaine/ton.htm
select Hiking and Staying 
France
Pyrenees

or directly
http://home.wxs.nl/~marlaine/pyr.htm
or 
http://home.wxs.nl/~marlaine/pyr2.htm



On Sat, 10 Jul 1999 23:23:45 +0100, Donald Macleod
<donald@sandwood.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>Any internet supplier of Pyrenees maps (mainly French?)
>
>ta in advance
>-- 
>Donald Macleod
>Edinburgh, Scotland
>donald@sandwood.demon.co.uk
>






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Subject: Sgurr na Banachdich (Skye)
From: Paul Simonite (stationhouse@zetnet.co.uk)

Hi,

Does anyone know if Banachdich can be ascended from the Glen Brittle 
YH via Sgurr nan Gobhar without serious climbing?

-- 
Cheers,

Paul (Compo) Simonite, Caithness





Subject: Sgurr nan Gillean
From: Paul Simonite (stationhouse@zetnet.co.uk)

Hi,

Can anyone tell me anything about the top section of the south east 
ridge of this mountain please?  The books say exposed scramble but 
how does it compare to other peaks on the ridge?

-- 
Cheers,

Paul (Compo) Simonite, Caithness





Subject: Re: GPS
From: Tim Forcer (tmf@ecs.soton.ac.uk.nojunk)

Matti Lamprhey wrote:
> 
> Alex wrote:
>
>> Did I hear that selective availability is going to be
>> switched off either next year or the yeat after ?

More significant IMO is the switching ON of new civilian transmissions
(extra signals, extra frequencies).  Some further info at
<http://www.navcen.uscg.mil/gps/geninfo/i2r.htm>.  But the primary point
that GPS is a US system paid for by the USA for the benefit of the USA
must not be forgotten, and some bodies are reluctant to regard GPS as a
total solution for that reason - however good it may be for their
purposes.

> Surely this must happen if, as seems inevitable, GPS is
> to be used for in-vehicle navigation systems.

Several points, all largely irrelevant to uk.rec.walking - so I've set
follow-ups to sci.geo.satellite-nav.

Vehicle GPS is now well-established.  Many techniques are used to
improve on the S/A-degraded signal, including inputs from compass and
speedometer.  The main problem with vehicle GPS is receiving decent
signals at all in "urban canyon" situations (possible relevance to
u.r.w. when translated to wilderness canyons).  There's also the need to
cope with tunnels!

Differential GPS (DGPS) is available now (various systems), and is
proven to give more than enough accuracy (centimetres up to metres,
depending on system) for most vehicle applications for most of Europe's
roads.  Handheld GPS sets incorporating DGPS aren't around yet, although
there are some DGPS add-on systems which could mature into a hand-held
add-on.  In the context of the space and electrical power available in a
car these should become common within vehicle GPS sets soon (IMO).

The increased power and space available in a car compared to a hand-held
unit also allow a much more detailed database to be stored.  Knowing
that the GPS receiver must be on the ground (and is probably on a road)
means that an extra factor can be fed into the position solution,
improving the horizontal accuracy.  Might give some problems with
multi-storey car parks, but flyovers are OK since the database has
information on road crossings that do and don't intersect - it needs
those for route-planning calculations.

Then there's integration of signals from the ex-Soviet Union system
GLONASS, and various proposals for European and International
purely-civilian GNSS (Global Navigation Satellite Systems).

Means that the receiver manufacturers will be able to continue
introducing newer and better products for a long time to come.  It isn't
exactly planned obsolescence, but the effects are similar!

-- 
Tim Forcer               tmf@ecs.soton.ac.uk
The University of Southampton, UK

The University is not responsible for my opinions




Subject: Grasmoor fells
From: Shaun Woodward (shaun@swoodward.force9.co.uk)

I am trying to work out the most logical way to climb all the 2000feet tops
in one day. Should I take advantage of the height in starting from
Whinlatter pass or go for an approach from the north and ascend via
Grisedale pikes long North East ridge, with a descent via Causey Pike?
Has anyone else got a better idea based on experience, is it many out and
backs or go for longer approaches from the north or steeper approaches from
the south, or should I forget it and split into 2 days?






Subject: Re: Walking & Camping w. Dogs in the Lakes
From: Justin Petty (justin@blackbat.demon.co.uk)

On Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:50:14 GMT, rennarda@my-deja.com wrote:
>
>So: are you allowed to camp with a dog (specifically, National Trust
>campsites, and the campsites in Borrowdale and Wasdale Head) ? Where

The National Trust campsite in Great Langdale certainly takes dogs.
--
Justin




Subject: Re: Bog Walkers
From: Martin Smith (msm@paradigm-uk.com)

Speaking as a long time resident of Dunstable, I should be intrigued to know
which of the local bogs (conspicuous by their absence) you had it in mind to
walk in.
--
Martin Smith

rob <rob@lash001.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7mfveb$4rj$1@news4.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Can anyone put me in touch with the Bog Walkers in the Dunstable area?
Much
> appreciated. . . . .
>
> rhutchinson@checkout-epos.co.uk
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
>
>






Subject: Re: What's the most romantic (castle) hotel in the Highlands / Skye ?
From: Jane Barton (j.barton@lib.gla.ac.uk)

In article <7mf7k6$ovb$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>,
  ah05@holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Gavin Whittaker) wrote:
>
>   If it doesn't have to be a castle, but you want a truly excellent
> service and position, I wouldn't hesitate to suggest the Loch
Torridon
> Hotel from direct experience
(http://www.slh.com/pages/d/donscoa.html).
> But then, I didn't have to pay for my stay there...

Does anybody know what happened about the helicopter trip (including
summit picnic) to Ben Aligin that this hotel was running last year? Has
it been stopped?

Jane


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.




Subject: Re: What's the most romantic (castle) hotel in the Highlands / Skye ?
From: Gavin Whittaker (ah05@holyrood.ed.ac.uk)

Jane Barton (j.barton@lib.gla.ac.uk) wrote:

: Does anybody know what happened about the helicopter trip (including
: summit picnic) to Ben Aligin that this hotel was running last year? Has
: it been stopped?

  You are joking, I hope?  
  We were there in August last year and there was no mention of a
helicopter.  If it's true, they just plummeted in my estimation.

	Gavin

*****************************************************************************
Dr. A.G. Whittaker - Dept. of Chemistry, King's buildings, West Mains
		     Rd., Edinburgh.  EH9 3JJ.                               
                     Tel: 0131 6504800.  Fax: 0131 6504743.             
                     email: ah05@holyrood.ed.ac.uk                      
*****************************************************************************





Subject: Re: Mindless Vandalism
From: Gordon Harris (gordon1@g3snx.demon.co.uk)

In article <378a6c76.15980388@news.clara.net>, Nick Croome <Newsagent@No
SpamCroome.clara.net> writes
>
>I dread to think what my reaction would have been had I found damage
>like that to an old Roman road.  Although, a Roman road is man made
>and in some respects no different to a modern repaired path.  Except
>for the fact that a Roman road has been part of the landscape for a
>thousand years or more!

Funny, that thought crossed my mind as I read your earlier paragraphs,
and recalled the antagonism towards path-building often appearing here.

Some of the satisfaction of reaching hilltops has undoubtedly gone, in
cases where it has been reduced to staircase climbs, but the misery of
crossing the boggy, over-used paths of the Peak District plateau has
lost it's charm for this 65 year-old.

Maybe the stone paths should be reserved for OAP's?
<Cue outcry from geriatric tigers>    ;-)
-- 
Gordon1




Subject: Re: Walking near Buttermere
From: Simon Caldwell (simonatgetrealsystemsdotcom)

That's the one.

Russell Pinder wrote in message <7mf077$rlm$4@phys-ma.sol.co.uk>...
>
>Simon Caldwell <simonATgetrealsystemsDOTcom> wrote in message
>news:931850915.21454.0.nnrp-10.c1ed0e5f@news.demon.co.uk...
>> The very one.  I suppose you can remember the name of the pub at the
>bottom
>> too?
>>
>
>That'll be the Kirk Stile Inn
>
>Russ
>
>
>> S.
>>
>> Michael Farthing wrote in message <931781917snz@cyclades.demon.co.uk>...
>> >In article <931779815.7343.6.nnrp-03.c1ed0e5f@news.demon.co.uk>
>> >           simonATgetrealsystemsDOTcom "Simon Caldwell" writes:
>> >
>> >> Or for something shorter, the hill (can't remember its name) above
>> Crummock
>> >> Water is enjoyable and usually deserted.
>> >
>> >Mellbreak
>> >
>
>
>






Subject: Re: Pennine Way
From: Nigel Danton (nigel@procyon1.demon.co.uk)

In article <7mf17v$hfg$1@news4.svr.pol.co.uk>, rob
<rob@lash001.demon.co.uk> writes
>Firstly, don't bother to reply to the email address on the message or reply
>on the news group as I'm not likely to read the news again for at least a
>month.

What's that saying. Something about post here, read here :)

>I'm planning on walking the Pennine Way with a friend, starting in early
>October.  I think that I've got most of my kit together and I'm properly
>prepared, but does anyone have any advice, stories, anything that might be
>of interest to me with regards the Pennine Way?

If anyone does want to respond to the NG I'd be most interested to hear
opinions etc. I'm toying with the idea of last two weeks in October.
-- 
Nige Danton




Subject: Re: NUDE CELEBS PASSWORD!!!
From: Blippie (blippie.takeaway-this@ukmax.remove.com)

>[porn site urls]
>Try charlie dimmock
>Maxence Carotte

A tad off topic, Max.  Cheers anyway, I'm sure someone in uk.rec.sheds was
interested.

Regards

Blippie
In my dictionary "conspiracy" is right between "con-man" and "constipation"








Subject: Re: walking in Gros Morne Newfoundland
From: Alan White (alan.lesley@dial.pipex.com)

On 14 Jul 1999 18:02:14 GMT, nhp@aber.ac.uk (Nicholas Parrot) wrote:

>
>I am about to visit newfoundland next week and am  hoping to do some 
>hillwalking in Gros Morne.  
>
>can anyone advise about the practicalities of walking in Gros Morne-
>e.g. Is camping stuff needed or are there huts / cabins / hostels along 
>the way ? Are the best trails day trails or should I plan for a three 
>night stop out.  How far apart are places to replenish food supplies ?
>
>What sort of weather can be expected? 
>What about the midge / pest problems  (and mammals !) 
>
>
>Oh and any recomendations ?  
>replies by e mail please 
>
>nhp@aber.ac.uk 
>
>

Try reposting in rec.backcountry if little happens here.

-- 
Alan White,
in England's Lake District.
http://www.alan.lesley.dial.pipex.com





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Sent:	21 July 1999 10:37
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Subject: Climbing / Mountian walking partner wanted (Living in the Gloucester area)
From: bloke (bloke@breathemail.net)

I am looking for someone (male or female) who would like to climb and or
walk on a regular basis.

I am 34 quite fit but would like to climb and walk more than I do, I have my
own transport, climbing and walking gear.

I live in the Cheltenham / Gloucester area.

Tel. Mike on 0973320437. or e.mail.






Subject: DOGS Protection from Advice
From: news.demon.co.uk (ruth-n-jon@otter2.demon.co.uk)

As regular walkers in the south of England we all to often meet aggressive
and
poorly controlled dogs,
We have seen various ads for different deterrent devices,
Suppliers,Reviews,Opinions and Recommendations would be welcomed






Subject: Re: DOGS Protection from Advice
From: Joris Broers (jwbroers@casema.net)

It's the same here in the Netherlands. I have a Dazzer (K-II Enterprises,
Camillus N.Y., USA) which gives a hard and high-pitched beep (humans can't
hear it, dogs can). I bought it at a good outdoor shop. The Dazzer does
certainly help to deter poorly controlled dogs.

Joris Broers

"news.demon.co.uk" wrote:

> As regular walkers in the south of England we all to often meet aggressive
> and
> poorly controlled dogs,
> We have seen various ads for different deterrent devices,
> Suppliers,Reviews,Opinions and Recommendations would be welcomed








Subject: Re: Query re Jim Perrin and the mistry of the dissappearing walker
From: Dicky (corbettr@dircon.co.uk)

As a young lad, my mother once bought me a Sherlock Holmes Detective outfit.
The sceptical inspiration formed as a result of reading about - and testing,
both the theoretical and practical aspects of sleuthing, have remained with
me to this very day.

Imagine, therefore, my astonishment when and during an early morning stroll
off into the misty unknown of that TV walk in question, one was supposed to
believe that the current editor of The Great Outdoors magazine and his
companion, one Jim Perrin, actually parted company within seconds of the
mist descending upon them, never to meet again until hours later when the
hardy editor of the aforementioned TGO mag arrived back at sea level.

All my sleuthing instincts told me then, and still tell me now, that
something fishy was a'going on here. How, may one enquire, could a party of
at least four people (if you include both cameraman and sound gaffer) split
up under such circumstances never to meet again until completion of
aforementioned hill walk?

Sorry, something wrong here. Walkers of that experience could not possibly
become separated under those circumstances.

Speaking frankly I smell a rat Watson. Would somebody please hand me my
violin and a substantial glass of laudanum, because I have work to do, a
mystery to solve, a great truth to uncover.

Richard - the great criminologist - Corbett


Gareth Elderkin <ge@ciao.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:memo.19990716045248.64741A@ciao.demon.co.uk...
> I only just caught the end of "Wilderness Walks" on Beeb2 yesterday - the
> County Mayo one.  Does anyone know what Jim Perrin was reading at the
> end?  Astonishing writing - quite stopped me in my tracks.  Please...
>
> Gareth Elderkin






Subject: Re: Query re Jim Perrin and the mistry of the dissappearing walker
From: Mal DDD (malddd@aol.comnospam)

>All my sleuthing instincts told me then, and still tell me now, that
>something fishy was a'going on here. 

If my memory doesn't fail me, Perrin wrote an article in the Daily Post about
the WW episode after it was filmed but before it was broadcast. 

Apparently he and McNeish and/or the crew had a bit of a spat, so Perrin, to
use the technical expression "saw his arse" and went his own way for a while
mit dog.

At least that's how I recall the gist of the article...

Anyone else in the N.Wales area recall reading it?

MD




Subject: Re: The White Peak Walk '99
From: gwyn (postmaster@127.0.0.1)

On Thu, 15 Jul 1999 23:39:22 +0100, Barry Riley <bril@zetnet.co.uk>
wrote:

>I know I've seen the Jarnett.  However, can't see it on the map.   
>Tell me more.

Its part of the minor road that leads to Taddington directly from
Monyash. I think maybe its only written on the Outdoor Leisure White
Peak OS Map.

As this route involves traversing about 1/2 mile of path alongside the
A6 this was the reason why I sought permission to go this way as the
organisers discourage walking down the A6 as it is a busy road.

>Yes, I'd like that

No problem with send E-mail nearer the time.
--
Gwyn,       58 Wainwrights and 1 Munro
I have done the knowledge of the lakes.
gwyn@gwyn-gwynrem.freeserve.co.uk (remove rem = spamtrap)
                     (put this in place of reply address)




Subject: Re: Sheep, dogs, and Scotland
From: Keith Jones (keithr.jones69@virgin.net)


"Mr Alan Hyslop" wrote in message ...
>Anyone know of good walking areas in Scotland which are
>sheep-free and therefore dog-friendly?

Princes Street, Edinburgh!!!!!!






Subject: Re: Sgurr na Banachdich (Skye)
From: Adrian P Robson (adrian.robson@robphil.demon.co.uk)


Jimmie Thomson <j.a.thomson@strath.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:7mk5tm$ebi$1@rockall.cc.strath.ac.uk...
[snip]

> avoid this kind of thing. If you don't like heights and exposure, you do
> need to know that the ridge is a razor edge, that you shuffle your feet
> along crab-like on one side while holding on to the other side, and might
> have to cross and recross a couple of times. Of course, in the cloud I was

I did this part of the ridge to Sgurr na Banachdich a few years ago in high
winds and though it might be a good idea to traverves below the ridge on the
Glen Brittle side - it was not. No problems with the wind, but the exposure
and scramble up to the summit was more than just interesting (!). Next time
I will stick to the sharp bits of the ridge. Later that day I was lifted off
my feet by the wind on the decent into Glen Brittle, but I managed to land
on some soft bits - the ground and my bum (!). It was a wild day...

--
Adrian P Robson
Northumberland, England








Subject: Isle of Man advice
From: Ruth Jones (ruth@mcm1.freeserve.co.uk)

I'm going to the Isle of Man for a week in the summer.
I'd be very grateful for suggested walks or campsites.

Thanks

R.Jones






Subject: Walking in Norfolk
From: Vorbx (vorbx@aol.com)

hi 
   do anyone know of any good walking maps/trials on the web for norfolk, i am
thinking of doing the coastal walk soon, yes i have got a map, infact it is my
second one as the first got a bit tatty, but it would be nice to place my walks
on a map i know will never wear out, 
 thanks




Subject: Lands End to JoG
From: AGSturges (agsturges@aol.com)

Any one have details of route Lands End to Glastonbury - Not Coast

Alan Sturges




Subject: Re: DOGS Protection from Advice
From: John Kirkland (jkirk@bigfoot.com)

On Sat, 17 Jul 1999 09:49:16 +0100,
news.demon.co.uk rattled on thus:

>As regular walkers in the south of England we all to often meet aggressive
>and
>poorly controlled dogs,
>We have seen various ads for different deterrent devices,
>Suppliers,Reviews,Opinions and Recommendations would be welcomed
>
>

A Mk1 Big-Stick-With-Nails-In-It ;>
--------------------------------

Supplier: Your back Garden?

Review: Higly effective. Stuns the largest of dogs with a well aimed
blow! Deters further attacks as dog is totally stunned, or on some
occasions, put out of your misery! Also useful against irate dog
owners after aforementioned dog stunning event.

Opinion: Could be considered a tad harsh ;>

Recommend: Make it using the tops of that huge Leylandii(sic!) you've
just topped off! 6inch nails are quite cheap from your local 'Wilco's'




I couldn't help that one.... ;>


-- 
# John Kirkland, Derby, England
# "If we get behind schedule, we can add more
# programmers and catch up"
# Domains *plonked*: aol.com, hotmail.com




Subject: Re: DOGS Protection from Advice
From: David Moore (dave_m_moore@post2me.freeserve.co.uk)

I find a gun very handy. Placed securely within a bumbag, it's easily at
hand and can be deployed at a moments notice. I usually find I need an extra
bullet, however, for the owner.


news.demon.co.uk wrote in message
<932201451.3564.0.nnrp-10.c2decc29@news.demon.co.uk>...
>As regular walkers in the south of England we all to often meet aggressive
>and
>poorly controlled dogs,
>We have seen various ads for different deterrent devices,
>Suppliers,Reviews,Opinions and Recommendations would be welcomed
>
>






Subject: Coolmax polo shirts
From: RobD (robd@manwalk.swinternet.co.uk)

Does anyone know where I can get a Coolmax polo shirt? I've seen
people wearing them so I know they're available. I'm in the Manchester
area.
TIA    RobD





Subject: Re: DOGS Protection from Advice
From: Bernard (bernard@ramsden.globalnet.co.uk)

news.demon.co.uk wrote in message
<932201451.3564.0.nnrp-10.c2decc29@news.demon.co.uk>...
>As regular walkers in the south of England we all to often meet aggressive
>and
>poorly controlled dogs,
>We have seen various ads for different deterrent devices,
>Suppliers,Reviews,Opinions and Recommendations would be welcomed
>
Many years ago, I was told a theory on how to control dogs.  I have never
come across it since, I have never seen it in action and I have never tried
it myself, in fact I do not think I have the ability.

Apparently the trick is to spit on the dogs nose.

Regards

Bernard

http://welcome.to/batleylad
"Dragged up in the West Riding" by Peter Hall






Subject: Re: Coolmax polo shirts
From: Stuart Baldwin (stuart@boxatrix.demon.co.uk)

On Sat, 17 Jul 1999 21:08:04 +0100, "RobD"
<robd@manwalk.swinternet.co.uk> wrote:

>Does anyone know where I can get a Coolmax polo shirt? I've seen
>people wearing them so I know they're available. I'm in the Manchester
>area.

Cotswold do North Cape CoolMax t-shirts and 'Wallace Beery' button neck
tops (grandad vests).  The t-shirt is not bad for 15 quid.  Not sure how
much the other sort is.

Or you could go and pay an arm and a leg for one of those nice Lowe
Alpine DriFlo ones.
-- 
Stuart Baldwin




Subject: Re: Compo gone but not forgotten.
From: EARTHDWELLER (earthdweller@bigwig.net)

Dave Mayall <mayalld@postoffice.co.uk> wrote in message
news:378F40D4.18469D2B@postoffice.co.uk...
<snip>
> So it seems likely that the new series will be shown, and that it will be
the
> last. As to the ending, I'm not sure if they will make any attempt to
finish
> off with the death of Compo, they haven't made anything of the death of
> actors previously. Wally Batty just disappeared, and a couple of series
later
> he was mentioned in the past tense.

My own feeling, as a long time fan, is that I would like them to do a full
send off for Compo. Here is this comical little character who we have all
known for years, time has finally caught up with the "little boy" and it is
time to celebrate his life. I wrote something on uk.local.yorkshire when the
news first appeared about the fact that many of us actually know very little
about Bill Owen the man - it is Compo the character that we know and that we
are mourning. It would seem wrong to me to do anything but give Compo a
funeral and wake, and let the other characters actually share their memories
and feelings (and decide who will look after his ferrets). To me it is the
only way to round off his life. Of course these characters are played by
actors who are mourning Bill Owen the man, and so it would be something that
they may or may not feel that they would want to do. Everyone in this area
seems to feel that they know Compo, and that he is one of us. Bill Owen's
funeral on Monday will, rightly, be a family affair and a send off for Bill,
but there will be a lot of people thinking about Compo on Monday.

I live in Summer Wine Country and when the news broke it was the main topic
of conversation throughout the area. Hardly anyone mentioned that Bill Owen
had died - it was that Compo had died. Compo has become an integral part of
our local culture, a local folk hero. One of the local papers carried a
story that there are plans to raise the money to get a statue made. In
addition, a plaque has already been commissioned which will be placed
outside the Summer Wine Exhibition and which says "In loving memory of Bill
Owen 'Compo' MBE who...." etc.

I think that LOTSW will be laid to rest at the end of this new series,
although they have been giving Barry a bigger role recently and could slot
him on to the trio instead, which would make for a new and interesting
dynamic. I would not be disappointed if this was the last series though. It
has moved in to the realms of an "all-time classic" and it will be some time
before any other programme can take its title of "the World's
longest-running sitcom".

To reply to Neil Tonks' suggestion that a LOTSW walk might appear, there are
actually several good Summer Wine walks already in LOTSW guidebooks
available locally. There is a BBC book called "Last of the Summer Wine: A
country companion by Clegg, Foggy and Compo", which has a section
promisingly entitled "Walks Supplement" with a walk written by each
character, but none of the walks seem to have any relationship with the
physical world apart from Ivy's Cafe...

If anyone is passing through Holmfirth they might like to know that a book
of condolence for Bill Owen has been opened at the Summer Wine Exhibition.
Donations in his memory for the King Edward VII Hospital, Beaumont Street,
London W1N 2AA can be sent to them directly or can be left at the Summer
Wine Exhibition.

EARTHDWELLER

Email andrew_burley@bigwig.net
Personal web-site EARTHDWELLER - http://www.bigwig.net/earthdweller
Community web-site MELTHAM ON THE WEB - http://welcome.to/meltham
ULY Descriptor - '64 M Y1- L+ U U-- KQ C-- c-- !B p-- Sh+ s-
FC(Millmoor,Meltham) !S R(HD7) I++ !H






Subject: Re: DOGS Protection from Advice
From: David Cantrell (nukeemup@thepentagon.com)

news.demon.co.uk wrote:

>As regular walkers in the south of England we all to often meet aggressive
>and poorly controlled dogs,
>We have seen various ads for different deterrent devices,
>Suppliers,Reviews,Opinions and Recommendations would be welcomed

The only time I've been attacked, I just kick the damned thing.  Hard.
With all my weight behind it.

Obviously I wouldn't try that with a _real_ dog like a Malamut :-) but
big dogs are always well controlled.

-- 
David Cantrell, part-time Unix/perl/SQL/java techie
                full-time chef/musician/homebrewer
                http://www.ThePentagon.com/NukeEmUp




Subject: Re: DOGS Protection from Advice
From: Paul Upham (paul.upham@btinternet.com)

>Many years ago, I was told a theory on how to control dogs.  I have never
>come across it since, I have never seen it in action and I have never tried
>it myself, in fact I do not think I have the ability.
>
>Apparently the trick is to spit on the dogs nose.
>

How about spitting on the nose of the owner instead? Ulimately, they are
responsible for the dogs behaviour. If the dog has a tendency to misbehave,
then the owner should keep it under close control.

My dog is rather timid and runs away from large dogs running at full speed
toward her. She does, however, have a tendency to like children and will
continually lick them, therefore I make sure she doesnt.

Regards

Paul







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Subject: Re: HappyHappy JoyJoy (Lakes TR)
From: Mark Edward (mark.edward@diamondgeezer.co.uk)

On Tue, 20 Jul 99 13:46:22 GMT, mf@cyclades.demon.co.uk (Michael
Farthing) wrote:
>Oi!  What tent were you using then?

My trusty new Salewa Micra, which i decided to get after finding one
in a Leicester shop that does 10% student discount, and reading Chris
Townsends positive review in TGO.

It's pretty light, seems really well made, and it's roomy for one, or
with enough space for two good friends, or maybe a perfect fit for
1&1/2 people (you and Timothy ?).


>Obviously you can't yet comment on its suitability.

I must admit i didn't really push it to the limit, the weather only
really got bad when it was in my rucksack. And when the going got
tough i'd mumble something about discretion and valour, and then head
for the nearest Youth Hostel :-(

cheerio,
Mark


Please remove the 'GEEZER' if replying by email




Subject: Re: HappyHappy JoyJoy (Lakes TR)
From: Mark Edward (mark.edward@diamondgeezer.co.uk)

On Tue, 20 Jul 1999 22:51:50 GMT, Paul Saunders
<gwrtheryn@my-deja.com> wrote:

>Isn't mountain weather great?  

Yes of course, don't get me wrong, i loved the weather. It was the
silly lump of a Coleman Petrol stove that i had to lug around
everywhere that spoiled it!   ;-)

(For the mystified, i refer you to the thread "Priming Petrol Stoves"
29/6/99)

cheerio, Mark


Please remove the 'GEEZER' if replying by email




Subject: Re: Unexpected free week
From: Chris Gilbert (chris.gilbert@ffs.nottingham.ac.uk)

Leonard Trim wrote:

>If you had a free week what would 
>be your dream route? 

I'd disappear into the back of beyond around Mullardoch and Monar. Emerging 
all beardy and smelly at Lochcarron where I'd annoy the locals in the bar at 
the hotel :-)

Chris






Subject: via ferrata in Slovenia
From: J Dixon (jjcdixon@globalnet.co.uk)

We are going on holiday next week in Slovenia based at Kransjka Gora. I
believe that there are some via ferrata type routes around but no decent
guide book in English. We have enjoyed this typeof root in the Dolomites
especially the ones in about the mid range of difficulty and wonder if
anyone could recommend some Slovenia routes.

John






Subject: Re: Shake Holes
From: Tony Gillon (tony@gillon27.freeserve.co.uk)


si wrote in message ...
>What exactly are Shake Holes?
>--
>si
>Homepage http://www.bigfoot.com/~simon_cliff
>ICQ 670505

They are found in Limestone Country and are where streams disappear
underground.

Tony Gillon.






Subject: Re: Long range weather
From: Peter Narramore (peter.narramore@spamnot.virgin.net)

In article <omrk3.1669$Yl.1807@wards>, "MichaelDonoghue" 
<Mick@donoghueswww.idps.co.uk> wrote:

> Does anyone know of good sites for long range (well week or two)
> weather forcasts? Plenty do next day or two, but planning walking hol 
> etc would benefit from a longer look.

You can see if there's anything of interest at
http://www.meto.gov.uk  although I must admit I only use it for the
short-range forecast.

- Pete
Abingdon





Subject: Walking in Dales or Lakes
From: cbrennen (cbrennen@classicfm.net)

Hi,
I'd like to go walking with my friend in the Dales or the Lakes.  Are there
any good walks people can recommend, along with any good B+B's or youth
hostels.
Reply to cbrennen@hotmail.com
Regards,
Chris Brennen






Subject: Re: Coolmax polo shirts
From: James C. (clap.trap@virgin.net)


Richard Gavaghan wrote in message <3795B5F3.7482DCE4@dial.pipex.com>...
>
>
>Wallace Beery- American actor in the 20s/30s/40s
>He usually played big slobby blokes who beat Buster Keaton types up.
>
>I've seen pics of him in a button up vest, with gut straining against
>the material.  I can only guess this image inspired Lowe Alpine to
>design their gear :-)

'Twas Patagucci (AKA Patagonia) that first used the Wallace Beery name, on
their capilene thermals.

James
-- @Home in Cambridge UK
clap.trap@virgin.net
Saw it on the tube/ Bought it on the phone/ Now you're
home alone/ It's a piece of crap.






Subject: Re: Heather Terrace, Tryfan
From: Dave Cox (cox@cableinetnospam.co.uk)

GPS?

--

Coxie, the Scouse Manc
Remove nospam from my address to reply
ICQ 21559285
dacox@cableinet.nospamco.uk

Phil Brady wrote in message
<01bed2b1$79cbdb40$2d018f93@is20.bangor.ac.uk>...
>We were totally lost on the side of Tryfan on Friday trying to find Heather
>Terrace from the A5 end.  We climbed too high initially then found the
>terrace when we were forced to retreat down a nasty gulley.  The locals
>(two familiies of wild goats) were not very helpful, so can any member of
>this group give good pointers for finding it next time?
>Regards
>
>Phil Brady
>University of Wales Bangor
>p.r.brady@bangor.ac.uk






Subject: Re: Best Lake District Camp Sites?
From: Jhimmy (tarill@nayspamfreeuk.com)

Hi,

Try the FRCC website at http://www.cumbria.com/frcc/general/camps.htm it gives most of the camp sites grid reference numbers and telephone numbers.

Jhimmy.




Subject: Re: Welsh pronunciation
From: Richard Webb (user@crux.u-net.com)

On Wed, 21 Jul 1999 01:42:42 +0100, "Keith Jones"
<keithr.jones69@virgin.net> wrote:


>>
>Yes, I'm a local, a *dwi'n siarad Cymraeg (rhan amser)* - i.e. it's not my
>first language and not necessarily grammatically correct
>But in my years of walking, the accepted idiom (?) seems to be Tryfan as in
>"Sun" and Glyder as in "Pin"
>By the way, *Da Iawn i chi* for taking the time and effort to speak Welsh
>*proper*!!
>Hwyl!
>keith

I have seen the spelling Cludr/Gludr   Hence the 'pin'
pronounciation... presume the usual spelling is English 

How do I stop folk in England ripping the p*ss out of me for saying
Tryfan instead of  'Truffan' 


I am tired of being told 'you have been up truffle again' etc from
folk in the club.


Richard Webb





Subject: Re: Walking downhill
From: Surfer! (nevis-view@nospam.demon.co.uk)

In article <27eo2dAjvXl3EwZy@wcompsys.demon.co.uk>, Steve Gray
<Steve@wcompsys.XXXdemon.co.uk> writes
>Toby Speight <Toby.Speight@streapadair.freeserve.co.uk> said...
>>
>>I'll carry a small rucksack for a big fee ;-)
>
>Didn't you notice how much gear I can get into my small rucksack ?

No wonder it's so heavy if you insist on using a depleted uranium Sigg
bottle...

>

-- 
Surfer!




Subject: Swollen / reddened lower legs
From:  (marc@otbbb.demon.co.uk)

Hi All

Can anyone suggest to me why a female should get this.  Not
partcilularly used to walking, fairly fit, moderate low-level walk of
about 9 miles along ridges through fields etc?  Ta!

Marc




Subject: Re: Walking downhill
From: Steve Gray (steve@wcompsys.xxxdemon.co.uk)

Surfer! <nevis-view@nospam.demon.co.uk> said...
>
>No wonder it's so heavy if you insist on using a depleted uranium Sigg
>bottle...

Heavy metal poisoning does wonders for your leading, apparently.

Works much like a lobotomy.

-- 
Steve Gray
Remove XXX to email me.




Subject: Re: Lyke Wake Walk
From: Martin Smith (msm@paradigm-uk.com)

I did this as part of a school field trip when aged 14. We did it in about 15 hours. We were quite pleased with this until we realised that a nearby group of unreal people had run it both ways quicker than that !

By the way, isn't August 11th the day the sky goes dark ?

-- 
Martin Smith

JD <J.D.@norfolkandchance.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message news:7n5b9k$2n1$1@news4.svr.pol.co.uk...
  Hi,

  <snip>

    So this time August11th is the date for our next / last attempt, all being well we hope to get to Ravenscar in around 12-13 hours.

  Has anyone else got the L.W.W bug?. Attempted to walk it several times? or done it in  quick time?...............Any storeys or experiences of the walk, I would be interested in hearing for you...........................Thanks and enjoy your walking
                                                                 It`s good to Walk.




Subject: Re: Swollen / reddened lower legs
From: Chris Gilbert (chris.gilbert@ffs.nottingham.ac.uk)

marc wrote:

>Can anyone suggest to me why a female should get this.  Not
>partcilularly used to walking, fairly fit, moderate low-level walk of
>about 9 miles along ridges through fields etc?  Ta!

Swelling and reddening is the body's way of protecting something that is being 
damaged. It may be that the prolonged walking is perhaps transmitting more 
shock to her legs than she is used to and in a fashion with which her body 
is not farmiliar. Her body is merely reacting, trying to protect the bones and 
ligaments. If, as you say, she's not used to prolonged walking then there's a 
chance that she'll get used to it the more she does it. Otherwise she might 
consider buying a set of shock absorbing insoles made from Sorbothane. They 
can be quite expensive (usually about 12 quid a pair) but they really do work.

Chris






Subject: Re: Kendal Mountain Film Festival
From: Chris Gilbert (chris.gilbert@ffs.nottingham.ac.uk)

BrianPHall wrote:

>The Festivals we organised in the past included major still photo
>competitions. This year we have not been able to fit this in the programme
>but believe that this would be an excellent addition next year. What do you
>think?

I think you're right. A stills exhibition is an excellent compliment. Perhaps 
you could encourage a competition, offering small prizes in a number of 
categories to discourage the professional photographers and encourage the 
amateurs.

Chris






Subject: Sykes Farm Campsite, Buttermere
From:  (mellowmark@my-deja.com)

Sykes Farm Campsite, Buttermere, Lake District.

Has anybody stayed at this camp site, if so what are the facilities
like and would you recommend it?

Thanks!

Mark.


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.




Subject: Hollins Farm Campsite, Boot, Lake District
From:  (mellowmark@my-deja.com)

Hollins Farm Campsite, Boot, Lake District

Has anybody stayed at this camp site, if so what are the facilities
like and would you recommend it? Also, please could you recommend some
good walks in this area as I have not been to this part of the Lakes
before.

Many Thanks!

Mark.


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.




Subject: Re: Walking in Dales or Lakes
From: Yogi Bear (yogi@jellystone.com)

cbrennen wrote in message <37960ba6@news2.vip.uk.com>...
>Hi,
>I'd like to go walking with my friend in the Dales or the Lakes.  Are there
>any good walks people can recommend, along with any good B+B's or youth
>hostels.
>Reply to cbrennen@hotmail.com
>Regards,
>Chris Brennen
>
Could you be a little more specific?  Day walks or a long-distance route,
how far, high level or low level?  The possibilities are infinite.
--
yogy.bear                    |   smarter than the
(at) btinternet.com       |   average spammer







Subject: Re: DOGS Protection from Advice
From: Chris Gilbert (chris.gilbert@ffs.nottingham.ac.uk)

Gordon Harris wrote:

>TROLL ALERT!!
>
>I have never been attacked by a dog whilst walking

I have and I did nothing whatsoever to provoke it either.

I don't feel the need to carry any particular device to protect me beyond a 
pair of size 9 walking boots but if I did then I think I'd choose one of the 
high pitch jobbies.

Problem dogs are few and far between thank goodness. Problem owners on the 
other hand.........

Chris






Subject: Re: DOGS Protection from Advice
From: Gavin Whittaker (ah05@holyrood.ed.ac.uk)

Tim Jones (t.jones@free4all.co.uk) wrote:

: In short the moral to this tale is that you should treat a persons dog
: with the same respect as you would the rest of their property 

  why would I want to steal a dog? 




Subject: Re: Hollins Farm Campsite, Boot, Lake District
From: Simon Caldwell (simonatgetrealsystemsdotcom)

Yes.  Can't remember what the facilities were like, so they can't have been
too bad.  Would certainly stay there again.

Loads of good walks around.
For a start, try Upper Eskdale, doesn't matter which hill you choose, it's a
marvellous spot.  Pen makes a good short day, the Scafells make a good
longer day.
The Esk Gorge makes a spectacular (difficult) scramble, needs a drought to
make it passable throughout.

Or pick a line across the hills to Ravenglass, then back by the railway.

Harter Fell is fun, you can lengthen the day by returning via any other
hills that take your fancy.

The main problem with Eskdale is that once you've been, everywhere else in
the Lakes will seem 2nd best by comparison.  Lucky it's relatively hard to
get to.

Have fun :-)

Simon

mellowmark@my-deja.com wrote in message <7n6ura$op0$1@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>Hollins Farm Campsite, Boot, Lake District
>
>Has anybody stayed at this camp site, if so what are the facilities
>like and would you recommend it? Also, please could you recommend some
>good walks in this area as I have not been to this part of the Lakes
>before.
>
>Many Thanks!
>
>Mark.
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Share what you know. Learn what you don't.






Subject: DOGS - Protection form Advice
From: Alan Rose (alanr@vicinf.demon.co.uk)

Anyone tell me how I can get some of this?
-- 
Alan Rose




Subject: Cairnless Summits
From: John Baddeley (badjohnxx@my-deja.com)

Last week I went up a hill that was, IIRC, the first I have been on
with no cairn at the summit. It was only a few km from a road and
fairly prominent, being a Marylin over 600m.
Is this quite unusual, or are there lots of cairnless summits out there
I have managed to miss ?

--
John Baddeley


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.




Subject: Re: Heather Terrace, Tryfan
From: Phil Brady (iss025@bangor.ac.uk)


Trevor Dennis <trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
<yCGpZAA77Vl3Ew68@tdennis.demon.co.uk>...
> Pedt Scragg said
> 
> >For former: Go through kissing gate at 664 603. Ignore path forward but
> >go left and thread through boulders, rising gently roughly due East.
> >Cross slightly boggy plateau below rocks to pick up uphill path as
> >above.
> 
> There is a rather obvious landmark at the start of the
> terrace - least ways there was two weeks ago - in the
> form of a small hut (667 599).

Trevor,
    we saw that but climbed up the slope before getting to it.  Do you go
almost due south from the hut and contour the slope gradually, or is there
a scramble just after it?

Phil Brady





Subject: Re: Heather Terrace, Tryfan
From: Phil Brady (iss025@bangor.ac.uk)

Dave Cox <cox@cableinetnospam.co.uk> wrote in article 
> GPS?
> 
> Phil Brady wrote in message
> <01bed2b1$79cbdb40$2d018f93@is20.bangor.ac.uk>...
> >We were totally lost on the side of Tryfan on Friday trying to find
Heather
> >Terrace from the A5 end.  We climbed too high initially then found the
> >terrace when we were forced to retreat down a nasty gulley.  The locals
> >(two familiies of wild goats) were not very helpful, so can any member
of
> >this group give good pointers for finding it next time?
> >Regards

Dave,
  I love those road runner cartoons where the poor bird finds itself
falling hundreds of feet to the ground because of a tiny error in
horizontal position.  GPS on Tryfan is very much like that!

Phil






Subject: Re: Unexpected free week
From: Leonard Trim (leonard.trim@zetnet.co.uk)

The message <7n4o09$ft1$4@oyez.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk>
  from  Chris.Gilbert@FFS.Nottingham.ac.uk (Chris Gilbert) contains 
these words: 


> Leonard Trim wrote:

> >If you had a free week what would 
> >be your dream route? 

> I'd disappear into the back of beyond around Mullardoch and Monar. Emerging 
> all beardy and smelly at Lochcarron where I'd annoy the locals in the bar at 
> the hotel :-)

> Chris


Studying the area closely!
Funny enough Chris I had just e-mailed you to ask if you are the 
Christopher immortalised in Memorable Munros. I had the mail returned 
address unknown. I guess I should have put the bit in brackets in too?


-- 
 Len Trim
leonard.trim@zetnet.co.uk





Subject: Re: DOGS - Protection form Advice
From: Gordon Harris (gordon1@g3snx.demon.co.uk)

In article <X8m1EHABdyl3EwMo@vicinf.demon.co.uk>, Alan Rose
<AlanR@vicinf.demon.co.uk> writes
>Anyone tell me how I can get some of this?

Bugger!
You miss-pelt "from" in the Subject line and escaped my thread kill. :-)
-- 
Gordon1




Subject: Re: DOGS - Protection form Advice
From: Michael Painter (mpainter@inreach.com)

At this point I'd suggest a search of deja.com under this heading.
Alan Rose <AlanR@vicinf.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:X8m1EHABdyl3EwMo@vicinf.demon.co.uk...
> Anyone tell me how I can get some of this?
> --
> Alan Rose






Subject: Pembrokeshire Coast Path: How much ascent?
From: Paul Richardson (paulrichardson@milkwood.cix.co.uk)


Could anyone kindly tell me how much ascent is involved in walking the 
Pembrokeshire Coast Path from north to south? It's virtually 
impossible to calculate this from the maps.

--
Paul Richardson
paulrichardson@milkwood.cix.co.uk




Subject: Re: Shake Holes
From: Roger Chapman (r.chapman@zetnet.co.uk)

The message <7n4vfb$4a8$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>
  from  "Tony Gillon" <tony@gillon27.freeserve.co.uk> contains these words: 

> si wrote in message ...
> >What exactly are Shake Holes?
> >--
> >si
> >Homepage http://www.bigfoot.com/~simon_cliff
> >ICQ 670505

> They are found in Limestone Country and are where streams disappear
> underground.

Not exactly. These are usually refered to as sink holes. Shake holes 
are normally dry.


Roger





Subject: Re: Long range weather
From: Paul Richardson (paulrichardson@milkwood.cix.co.uk)

Yogi Bear wrote:
 
> I use this site too.  I've found it surprisingly accurate.

I'm surprised by folks' confidence in the Met. Office.

I recently read somewhere or other that they claim 86 per cent 
accuracy rate. My experience suggests something like an 86 per cent 
inaccuracy rate. Does anybody know on what criteria they base their 
claims? 

(Yes, I have asked them. They ignored me).


--
Paul Richardson
paulrichardson@milkwood.cix.co.uk




Subject: Lyke Wake Walk
From: JD (j.d.@norfolkandchance.freeserve.co.uk)

Hi,
      I was wondering if anyone else has the same fascination with this walk, I myself have been on the walk four times, but have only completed it once. The first time I went, I was 13 and cried off it at Fylingdales, and vowed never to try it again, but sure enough blisters healed and with a year to soften my memory I was back again, this time triumphant in about 22 hours, again I vowed never to go back again, this time there was a thirteen year gap to soften my memory. We set out last August to try and get a decent time for the walk, but the group(me and 6 of my dads walking mates) were virtually roasted by one of the hottest days last year, 2 dropped out at The Lion Inn(Blakey) and the rest of us pushed on as far as Fylingdales, again I vowed I would never try again, but just 2 months later me and my dad were back again aiming for a decent time for the crossing, we made The Lion Inn in 4.5 hours the fastest time by far for me or my dad, but the boggy mid section which had several weeks of constant rain on it, slowed us to a snails pace and with the time  litteraly dragging on we decided to call it a day.
Obviously all walkers have their own reasons for walking, but I would not class myself as a walker, my dad goes walking every chance he gets, but I myself only take an interest when I hear the L.W.W. mentioned.
  So this time August11th is the date for our next / last attempt, all being well we hope to get to Ravenscar in around 12-13 hours.

Has anyone else got the L.W.W bug?. Attempted to walk it several times? or done it in  quick time?...............Any storeys or experiences of the walk, I would be interested in hearing for you...........................Thanks and enjoy your walking
                                                               It`s good to Walk.




Subject: Kendal Mountain Film Festival
From: BrianPHall (brianphall@msn.com)

We are looking for feedback from walkers, mountaineers and outdoor people as
to what they want in a UK based Mountain Film Festival.

We are at present well on the way to organising films, lectures, debates,
art and photo exhibitions for the Kendal Mountain Film Festival on the 15th
to 17th of October 1999. Details can be found on our web site
www.mountainfilm.co.uk and we can be contacted on info@mountainfilm.co.uk

We are trying to produce a well balanced Festival which will appeal to all
people who enjoy the outdoor and the hills and much in particular the film
categories of Mountain Environment, Mountaineering and Extreme Mountain
sports should appeal to a broad section of the outdoor loving public.

However I would welcome any suggestions on content of the Festival either
for this year or if impractical due to time constraints on future festivals.

The Festivals we organised in the past included major still photo
competitions. This year we have not been able to fit this in the programme
but believe that this would be an excellent addition next year. What do you
think?

We are also keen to hear from anyone who may be interested in entering
films.

Hope you can come to the Festival

Brian Hall







Subject: Kendal Mountain Film Festival
From: BrianPHall (brianphall@msn.com)

We are looking for feedback from walkers, mountaineers and outdoor people as
to what they want in a UK based Mountain Film Festival.

We are at present well on the way to organising films, lectures, debates,
art and photo exhibitions for the Kendal Mountain Film Festival on the 15th
to 17th of October 1999. Details can be found on our web site
www.mountainfilm.co.uk and we can be contacted on info@mountainfilm.co.uk

We are trying to produce a well balanced Festival which will appeal to all
people who enjoy the outdoor and the hills and in particular the film
categories of Mountain Environment, Mountaineering and Extreme Mountain
sports should appeal to a broad section of the outdoor loving public.

However I would welcome any suggestions on content of the Festival either
for this year or if impractical due to time constraints on future festivals.

The Festivals we organised in the past included major still photo
competitions. This year we have not been able to fit this in the programme
but believe that this would be an excellent addition next year. What do you
think?

We are also keen to hear from anyone who may be interested in entering
films.

Hope you can come to the festival

Brian Hall







Subject: Re: The Beverley '20'
From: Mark G. (mark@grant.karoo.co.uk)

The 'beverley 20' passes through the village of walkington,where I live,
there are many new signs, so you will not get lost.

Mark Grant.



gwyn wrote in message <37951176.2860127@news.freeserve.net>...
>I just wondered if anyone knew of any information about the route of
>this walk as it was abandoned years ago.
>
>I intend to walk it whilst I'm over there in 'East Yorkshire' (no
>jokes please ;-) )
>
>Also if I complete it I was just wondering if anyone knew how to get
>hold of the triangle purple badges they used to dole out after you had
>done it.
>
>I know the badge Idea is a tall order but I'm wondering if one of the
>organisers of the aforementioned abandoned walk is an avid reader of
>uk.rec.walking and has some badges left over collecting mold in their
>loft. Could you please send me one I'll send proof in the way of
>photo's if required ;-)
>
>--
>Gwyn,       58 Wainwrights and 1 Munro
>I have done the knowledge of the lakes.
>gwyn@gwyn-gwynrem.freeserve.co.uk (remove rem = spamtrap)
>                     (put this in place of reply address)






Subject: About your last holiday
From: Stefan Brombach (stefan@brombach.freeserve.co.uk)

Hello!

How was your last holiday? I am a student from Glasgow / Scotland and I am
currently writing my dissertation about Youth travel, backpacking and
outdoor holidays. If one of your last holidays was one of those I would be
very grateful if you might support me by answering the following
questionnaire.

Your information will not be used for commerce! It is just for a
dissertation! You will not receive further eMails!

Just select the *REPLY TO AUTHOR/SENDER* option on your E-mail/News client
to fill out the questionnaire.


Thank you!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

PLEASE PLACE a 'X' BETWEEN ONE SET OF SQUARE BRACKETS FOR EACH QUESTION OR
QUOTE THE ANSWER AFTER THE ARROWS!
(IN SOME QUESTIONS SEVERAL ANSWERS ARE POSSIBLE!)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------


1. In which country or countries did you travel during your last
adventure/backpacking holiday?
->

2. How long was your holiday? ->

3. How did you travel (several answers are possible)?
    []    Aircraft
    []    Train
    []    Bus/Coach
    []    Car/Motorbike
    []    Ship/Ferry
    []    Bike
    []    Trekking/Hitchhiking
    []    Other (please specify) ->

4. Which accommodation types do you use? Please quote the frequency on a
scale from 1 (often), 2 sometimes, to 3 (seldom) in the brackets. Skip those
types you did not use.

    []    Hotel / Bed & Breakfast
    []    Rented accommodation
    []    Friend's / Relatives House
    []    Youth Hostel
    []    Camping
    []    Other (please specify) ->

5. Which activities did you undertake in you last holiday and which of these
activities would you like to do during your next trip?
Did it                                        Would like to do nexttime
    []        Sightseeing                                      []
    []        Hiking / walking                                []
    []        Climbing / mountaineering              []
    []        Cycling / mountain biking                []
    []        Swimming / beach                           []
    []        Sailing / windsurfing                         []
    []        Canoeing / kayaking / rafting          []
    []        Fishing / angling                               []
    []        Winter sports                                    []
    []        Other (please specify) ->                 []
    []        None of those

6. How did you arrange your trip/holiday?
    []    Individual / Independent
    []    Package tour
    []    Group tour
    []    Visiting friends and relatives
    []    Other (please specify) ->

7. How did you book your tour (several answers are possible)?
    []    Travel agent
    []    Direct via the tour operator
    []    Direct via airline, train or ferry operator, etc.
    []    Internet
    []    Did not book in advance

8. How much did you spend approximately for this holiday?
->

9. How often do you do backpacking/adventure holidays?
    []    once a year
    []    twice a year or more
    []    every 2nd year
    []    every 3rd year or more seldom

10. In which country do you live? ->

11. How old are you? ->

12. Are you?
    []    female
    []    male

13. What is your occupation?
    []    Student
    []    Employed
    []    Self-employed
    []    Unemployed
    []    Housewife / househusband
    []    Others

14. Do you know or do you read newspapers and magazines about backpacking
and outdoor travel (Please quote the appropriate newspapers/magazines)?
    []    I know it: ->
    []    I read it sometimes: ->
    []    I read it regularly: ->
    []    Do not know any

15. Do you have an International Student Card or Young Travellers Card?
    []    ISIC
    []    IYTC
    []    none
    []    Other (please specify) ->

Thank you very much for you help!
























Subject: Re: St Cuthbert Way
From: Andrew McCloy (106035.2407@compuserve.com)

Re St Cuthbert's Way: the official, free Accom & Info booklet is 
essential (call Jedburgh Tourist Info Centre on 01835 863438). 
Our favourite B&Bs were Valleydene at Kirk Yetholm and Southwood 
at Lowick. It's a scenic and interesting route - have fun!

Andrew McCloy

-- 
Andrew McCloy




Subject: Re: Query re Jim Perrin and the mistry of the dissappearing walker
From: Andrew McCloy (106035.2407@compuserve.com)

Yep, I have it on good authority that Jim threw a wobbly at Cam 
and the crew and turned his back on the lot of 'em. A little odd, 
since Jim is employed by McNeish to write a monthly column for 
TGO. Still, touchy lot these writers, eh?

-- 
Andrew McCloy




Subject: Re: Lyke Wake Walk
From: Graham Seed (roy@gseed.freeserve.co.uk)


    JD wrote in message <7n5b9k$2n1$1@news4.svr.pol.co.uk>...
    
    Has anyone else got the L.W.W bug?. Attempted to walk it several times? or done it in  quick time?...............Any storeys or experiences of the walk, I would be interested in hearing for you...........................Thanks and enjoy your walking
                                                                   It`s good to Walk.
    
    I remember the Lyke Wake Walk. It was my first real walking experience when I was fifteen and I seem to remember it went on forever. Eventually, I found myself walking down the road to Ravenscar, literally puting one foot in front of the other. When I got home that night I fell on the bed and woke up seventeen hours later in the same position....
    
    Graham




Subject: Re: Welsh pronunciation
From: Osman (roy@gseed.freeserve.co.uk)


Phil Brady wrote in message
<01bed2b0$873495c0$2d018f93@is20.bangor.ac.uk>...

>> Is it Glyder as in "fiddle", or is is Glyder as in "thud"?

>> Norma Sanderson


>Dwi'n dwsgi Cwmraeg (=I'm learning Welsh) but the locals say:
>
>Glyder rhyming with rudder, but try as well to put a slight roll to the
>final R.
>
>Tryfan rhyming with oven.   Distinctly "uv" in the middle.
>
>"y" is pronounced like the y in putty if it's the last syllable, "u"
>otherwise.
>"f" is always pronounced "v", "ff" as "f".
>
>Phil Brady


Ok, most people agree its Truvvan,  (two vs) but where's the emphasis - is
it two syllables or one long one?

Graham






Subject: Re: The Beverley '20'
From: gwyn (postmaster@127.0.0.1)

On Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:43:50 GMT, poster@bibloset.demon.co.uk (Peter
Robins) wrote:

>Abandoned? Since when? When I was last over there a couple of years
>ago it was well waymarked, in fact a good deal better than the Wolds
>Way with which it is partly coincident.

Sorry, I'm going on some old info that my brother gave me.

>>Also if I complete it I was just wondering if anyone knew how to get
>>hold of the triangle purple badges they used to dole out after you had
>>done it.

>Try sending an SAE to Glen Hood, 329 Kingston Rd, Willerby HU10 6PY

Cheers, will send the letter off and will be doing it during the
summer shutdown.
Can you e-mail me with the rough route please ??
--
Gwyn,       58 Wainwrights and 1 Munro
I have done the knowledge of the lakes.
gwyn@gwyn-gwynrem.freeserve.co.uk (remove rem = spamtrap)
                     (put this in place of reply address)




Subject: Re: Cairnless Summits
From: Gordon Harris (gordon1@g3snx.demon.co.uk)

In article <7n7cos$tu4$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, John Baddeley <badjohnxx@my-
deja.com> writes
>Last week I went up a hill that was, IIRC, the first I have been on
>with no cairn at the summit. It was only a few km from a road and
>fairly prominent, being a Marylin over 600m.
>Is this quite unusual, or are there lots of cairnless summits out there
>I have managed to miss ?
>
Loads of them.    I'm afraid there are vandals who deliberately destroy
caitns.     Fortunately they are in a minority.
<Duck and run>.    
-- 
Gordon1




Subject: Re: DOGS Protection from Advice
From: Richard Webb (user@crux.u-net.com)

On Tue, 20 Jul 1999 13:40:09 +0100, Richard D Jenkins
<rdj@highwater.nospamco.uk> wrote:

>
>As for cows - ever tried leading a dog on a lead past a welsh black cow
>and calf? - not for the faint hearted!


Ever passed a dog with a cow on a halter... even more fun!

Richard Webb




Subject: Re: Cairnless Summits
From: Richard Webb (user@crux.u-net.com)

On Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:19:04 GMT, John Baddeley
<badjohnxx@my-deja.com> wrote:

>Last week I went up a hill that was, IIRC, the first I have been on
>with no cairn at the summit. It was only a few km from a road and
>fairly prominent, being a Marylin over 600m.
>Is this quite unusual, or are there lots of cairnless summits out there
>I have managed to miss ?
>
IMHO no.... not where there are rocks.. many Southern Upland hills,
dont have cairns. but rocky places there are cairns (in Mid Wales, big
cairns) see photos on
http://www.crux.u-net.com/Jul99/Pumlumon.html#top or 
http://www.crux.u-net.com/Jul99/Mallaen.html#top

I recently was on Meall a Chaoruinn** in Strath Vaich, Easter Ross.
There is a cairn , but it is of recent construction.  Some git
probably dug some rocks up as it is now listed in the Munro's Tables
Book  (as a Graham)

Often the cairn is not at the summit
Sometimes there is just a trig pt  (Kirkland Hill, Cheviot,Ben Lomond)

There was no cairn on Tryfan,  Inn Pinn etc last time I was on them

Richard Webb

**http://www.crux.u-net.com/June99/MeallaCharuinn.html#top




Subject: Re: Cairnless Summits
From: Richard Webb (user@crux.u-net.com)

On Thu, 22 Jul 1999 18:19:31 +0100, Gordon Harris
<Gordon1@g3snx.demon.co.uk> wrote:


>Loads of them.    I'm afraid there are vandals who deliberately destroy
>caitns.     Fortunately they are in a minority.
><Duck and run>.    
>-- 
>Gordon1

Few and far between... fortunately   (Lingmell was done in Wainwrights
time)

However vandals often build cairns on empty hillsides leading to all
sorts of problems.  (see Lake district or N Wales)
Fortunately in Scotland, people who replace the stones  usualy
outnumber the vandals, so the cairns dont get built.

Recently built cairns are easily identified, (stone shaped holes near
by) So there is no excuse for damaging property (ie summits and estate
built cairns, antiquities etc.)

My experience is that in the Highlands, crappy little cairns dont
survive very long. Estate cairns and old ones are respected.

And then there are the curricks

Richard Webb




Subject: Re: Best Lake District Camp Sites?
From: Mark Wilden (mark@wilden16.freeserve.co.uk)

I spent almost a month at the site at the north end of Derwentwater (Camping
and Caravanning?). I had a blast. I met lots of nice, interesting people
(too many, really), it's quite close to Keswick, has good showers, and was
ideally sited for accomplishing my goal of finishing up AW's North West
Fells.






Subject: Re: Umbrella
From: Mark Wilden (mark@wilden16.freeserve.co.uk)

One of the first proponents of umbrellas was Ray Jardine. He's a famous
ultralight backpacker who wrote a quirky guide to the Pacific Crest Trail.

Jardine's search for the absolute lightest pack around (I think his weighed
in at 16 lbs or less) lead him to use an umbrella to replace a walking stick
and poncho. He gives detailed instructions in his book for shaving off that
unnecessary ounce or two from the bog standard brolly.






Subject: Countryside March
From: Richard Webb (user@crux.u-net.com)

Hello all

I beleive the Countrycide (sic) Alliance are up to their old marching
tricks again.

Those of you wanting a hassle free day on dodgy ground, or visit that
forest you always wanted to see ....

Make a date for 28th September when the 'unspeakable' are demmoing at
the 'Labour' Party conf. at Bournemouth

I know some of you made good use of the Hyde park bash.

If Blair does keep pushing the hunting ban, we may have several such 
opportunties this coming winter

R Webb




Subject: Re: Cairnless Summits
From: Martin Richardson (martinr@thequiff.demon.co.uk)

In article <1Ur9nBAjK1l3Ewag@g3snx.demon.co.uk>, Gordon Harris
<Gordon1@g3snx.demon.co.uk> writes
>In article <7n7cos$tu4$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, John Baddeley <badjohnxx@my-
>deja.com> writes
>>Last week I went up a hill that was, IIRC, the first I have been on
>>with no cairn at the summit. It was only a few km from a road and
>>fairly prominent, being a Marylin over 600m.
>>Is this quite unusual, or are there lots of cairnless summits out there
>>I have managed to miss ?
>>
>Loads of them.    I'm afraid there are vandals who deliberately destroy
>caitns.     Fortunately they are in a minority.
><Duck and run>.    

I recognise a troll when I see one ;-) However, the vandals are the
people who build them in the first place.

Welcome to the (~uiff Woodsave  

Martin Richardson               martinr@thequiff.demon.co.uk







Subject: Re: Cairnless Summits
From: Martin Richardson (martinr@thequiff.demon.co.uk)

In article <37975b4d.3027107@news.u-net.com>, Richard Webb <user@crux.u-
net.com> writes
>, people who replace the stones  
 
= the vandals.


Welcome to the (~uiff Woodsave  

Martin Richardson               martinr@thequiff.demon.co.uk







Subject: Re: DOGS - Protection form Advice
From: Bernard (bernard@ramsden.globalnet.co.uk)


Alan Rose wrote in message ...
>Anyone tell me how I can get some of this?
>--
>Alan Rose
Which do you want protection from dogs or protection from advice about dogs?

Bernard






Subject: Re: Heather Terrace, Tryfan
From: Trevor Dennis (trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk)

Phil Brady said

>Trevor,
>we saw that but climbed up the slope before getting to it.  

The Terrace starts immediately behind the hut, and the 
path passes just to the E of it. I have a feeling you
left the A5 too far W, (that's where all the parking is),
and couldn't resist the temptation to start climbing.

Walk back along the road to the double stile at 668 605,
about 100m past Lyn Ogwen, and head SE towards Tryfan Bach.
Bare steadily S across the soft ground. When you draw level
Trafan Bach, head SW and look for the hut. 

I don't know if we were lucky, but apart from a small 
part of climbers, we were the only people on the Terrace.
This was in stark contrast to the 20 or so we saw on the 
summit.

>Do you go almost due south from the hut and contour the 
>slope gradually, or is there a scramble just after it?

The Terrace is a wide, almost level, boulder strewn
ledge. You can't miss it. There are some (graded)
scrambles off the Terrace up to the summit, but the
easy route is to follow the Terrace all the way to
the saddle N of South Peak, cross the wall, then follow
the path up to the summit.

-- 
Trevor Dennis                          trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk
G6HVK                                           tdennis3@ford.com
   I'm just clever enough to realize how little I really know




Subject: Re: Heather Terrace, Tryfan
From: Trevor Dennis (trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk)

Phil Brady said

>  I love those road runner cartoons where the poor bird finds itself
>falling hundreds of feet to the ground because of a tiny error in
>horizontal position.  GPS on Tryfan is very much like that!

I must admit to taking a fully programed GPS when climbing
in a new location, but feel deeply ashamed if I ever need
to take it out my pack.

A huge side benefit is that having scanned the map - for
use with OziExplorer - I can print out the route on a single
sheet of A4, which is considerably more convenient than 
struggling with a square metre of OS Leisure series map
on a windy hill side.

Perhaps ironically, it's forests that test my navigation
skills. I hate the bloody things.

-- 
Trevor Dennis                          trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk
G6HVK                                           tdennis3@ford.com
   I'm just clever enough to realize how little I really know




Subject: Re: Great Website
From: ylh44 (bagpuize@dial.pipex.com)

No I wont - as a matter of fact I avoid anything with the intro 'Great
Website ... check it out'

Ta .. ra

Jonathan Lochhead wrote in message <3792A9B9.8C4099FD@imw.com.au>...
>Check it out...
>http://www.partanimal.com
>






Subject: Re: Walking in Sutherland
From: ylh44 (bagpuize@dial.pipex.com)

I thought this was an advert-free site.

:-}

Bagpuize

jimbo wrote in message <7n2c6j$g3a$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>...
>Visit this site. www.vacations-scotland.co.uk/rhiconich.html
>
>






Subject: Re: Heather Terrace, Tryfan
From: Kevin Clinton (kevin@nospamclintons.demon.co.uk)

In article <yCGpZAA77Vl3Ew68@tdennis.demon.co.uk>, Trevor Dennis
<trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk> wrote...
>There is a rather obvious landmark at the start of the
>terrace - least ways there was two weeks ago - in the
>form of a small hut (667 599).
Anybody know what it's for?
I thought it might be a tool shed for a footpath gang - but on closer
examination found a stack of tools behind it.
It has a locked door, two small airvents and a boarded-up window.
-- 
Kevin




Subject: Re: Welsh pronunciation
From: Toni Davenport (toni.davenport@tesco.net)

>Ok, most people agree its Truvvan,  (two vs) but where's the emphasis - is
>it two syllables or one long one?
>
>Graham


I'm not Welsh but I always thought it was truv-vaan

Toni






Subject: Re: Cairnless Summits
From: Adrian Marsh Tupper (adrian.tupper@zetnet.co.uk)

The message <3797591a.2464060@news.u-net.com>
  from  user@crux.u-net.com (Richard Webb) contains these words: 

> Often the cairn is not at the summit
> Sometimes there is just a trig pt  (Kirkland Hill, Cheviot,Ben Lomond)

The trig point, of course, may not be on the summit either.
-- 
Adrian Tupper, Edinburgh
adrian.tupper@zetnet.co.uk
McClassify's Munro Bagging on the Web
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/adriantupper/mindex.htm





Subject: Re: St Cuthbert Way
From: Adrian Marsh Tupper (adrian.tupper@zetnet.co.uk)

The message <7m86ju$phq$1@taliesin.netcom.net.uk>
  from  "Joseph Cassidy" <jcassidy@netcomuk.co.uk> contains these words: 


> Hope to Walk this May 2000. Any info especially B&B's would be helpful.
> Thanks
> Joe


Hi Joe

A friend has just completed it.  I'll get the details for you, 
probably on Sunday so watch this space...



-- 
Adrian Tupper, Edinburgh
adrian.tupper@zetnet.co.uk
McClassify's Munro Bagging on the Web
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/adriantupper/mindex.htm





Subject: Re: Compo gone but not forgotten.
From: Adrian Marsh Tupper (adrian.tupper@zetnet.co.uk)

The message <7mvg1j$29o$1@news1.cableinet.co.uk>
  from  "EARTHDWELLER" <earthdweller@bigwig.net> contains these words: 

> The
> biggest complaint that long-time residents of Holmfirth seem to have is that
> they don't have the variety of shops that they used to have - almost every
> new shop is a tea room or gift shop. If you do see one of the early episodes
> of LOTSW you will see Holmfirth was in a very sorry state, and most people
> accept that it was in decline and that those shops which have been lost
> would have been lost anyway. I would guess that less than half of the
> current shops would generate a reasonable profit without tourism.

As an earlier contributor pointed out, there is scope for a LOTSW way 
and, it seems, plenty of local refreshment to boot.  (c.f. Horton in 
Ribblesdale and Haworth).

Perhaps this NG could suggest a route?

-- 
Adrian Tupper, Edinburgh
adrian.tupper@zetnet.co.uk
McClassify's Munro Bagging on the Web
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/adriantupper/mindex.htm





Subject: Re: Lyke Wake Walk
From: Roger Chapman (r.chapman@zetnet.co.uk)

The message <7n5b9k$2n1$1@news4.svr.pol.co.uk>
  from  "JD" <J.D.@norfolkandchance.freeserve.co.uk> contains these words: 

> Has anyone else got the L.W.W bug?. Attempted to walk it several times? 
> or done it in  quick time?...............Any storeys or experiences of
> the walk, I would be interested in hearing for
> you...........................Thanks and enjoy your walking

I have done it 3 times but even the last crossing was a very long time ago.

What is a quick time? My old enemy Naismith would take something 
under 16 hours and from personal experience I would have thought it 
hard to walk it in much under 12 hours unless you were into race 
walking which I am not. IIRC my fastest time was 11 hours 22 minutes 
and that was a deliberate attempt at a quick crossing which even 
involved setting off some hours after the rest of the group (one of 
which had such bad knee trouble he gave up on the very last road crossing). 

Emboldened by the above result I decided that the LWW in Summer was 
too easy so organised a meet in the middle of winter starting at 
midnight. Not surprisingly I had only 2 other takers (plus a small 
support party) and one of those dropped out before daybreak. It was 
very cold but there was not much snow about. However the snow had a 
breakable crust which did not exactly add to the enjoyment of 
walking. I think we took about 15 and a half hours that trip. 

The snow having held off for the walk waited until we had found 
ourselves a nice campsite up on the moors (IIRC on a re-entrant on 
the Wheeldale road with steep hills out on both sides) and then fell 
heavily for much of the night. It was with some difficulty that my 
Landrover towed the other vehicle (a Minivan) up one of the hills 
next morning. (We also had the outside lane on the Motorway all to 
ourselves on the way home, happy days?).






Subject: Re: Welsh pronunciation
From: Keith Jones (keithr.jones69@virgin.net)


Toni Davenport wrote in message <7n819v$k6h$1@epos.tesco.net>...
>>Ok, most people agree its Truvvan,  (two vs) but where's the emphasis - is
>>it two syllables or one long one?
>>
>>Graham
>
>
>I'm not Welsh but I always thought it was truv-vaan
>
>Toni
>
>But with no v in the Welsh alphabet, the f in Tryfan is a soft f sound with
a slight emphasis on it.






Subject: Re: Umbrella
From: Chris Townsend (chris@auchnarrow.demon.co.uk)

In article <7n7nrf$66d$2@usenet48.supernews.com>, Mark Wilden <Mark@wild
en16.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>One of the first proponents of umbrellas was Ray Jardine. He's a famous
>ultralight backpacker who wrote a quirky guide to the Pacific Crest Trail.

The Pacific Crest Trail Hiker's Handbook (AdventureLore Press). Well
worth reading by anyone interested in ultralight hiking. Umbrellas were
in use long before Jardine of course. You can see them in old
photographs of Himalayan mountaineers walking in to base camp.
>
>Jardine's search for the absolute lightest pack around (I think his weighed
>in at 16 lbs or less) lead him to use an umbrella to replace a walking stick
>and poncho. 

No, he uses the umbrella instead of a rain jacket. He uses a tarp for
camping. And the last time he hiked the PCT his pack weight, without
food, was 8.44lbs. His wife Jenny carried 7.12. 

- - 

Chris Townsend. 
Mountain & Wilderness Writing & Photography.    

http://www.auchnarrow.demon.co.uk
http://www.redstart.net/Chris_Townsend/index.html




Subject: campsite N of Whitby
From: MichaelDonoghue (mick@donoghueswww.idps.co.uk)

Youth Hostels busy on Yorks coast, so mixing with camping.
Anyone know of good campsites north of Whitby? Preferably near/on coast.
Mick






Subject: Re: DOGS - Protection form Advice
From: John Goldfine (johngoldfine@acadia.net)

I suspect this is not a thread I want to mess with, but here goes.  I have
no dogs advice-form and no advice about protection either, unless it is: be
lucky.

A few weeks ago in Wales, I lost the ROW and found myself in a barnyard,
surrounded on three sides by outbuildings and behind me the muddy damn path
didn't want to backtrack.  The two buildings ahead were connected with a
vertical board fence, in which I could see a small gate and beyond which I
knew was the road.  In full knowledge of my trespass, I headed for that gate
and as I reached it and started trying to figure out how to open it, a dog,
fifteen feet off and in the shadow of one of the buildings, raised his head.
I saw the movement and he saw me.  I felt a huge rush of adrenaline.  In his
case, apparently ten million years of evolution had brought him to the point
where he had come to see the silliness in getting obsessional over
territory.   My house is your house, he said, yawning, and went back to
sleep.

So, get involved with highly evolved dogs would be my advice.

Gordon Harris wrote in message <2ySd+HAFIzl3Ew52@g3snx.demon.co.uk>...
>In article <X8m1EHABdyl3EwMo@vicinf.demon.co.uk>, Alan Rose
><AlanR@vicinf.demon.co.uk> writes
>>Anyone tell me how I can get some of this?
>
>Bugger!
>You miss-pelt "from" in the Subject line and escaped my thread kill. :-)
>--
>Gordon1






Subject: Re: Heather Terrace, Tryfan
From: Dave Cox (cox@cableinetnospam.co.uk)

If anyone trusts GPS to the foot, they deserve to go over the edge of a
cliff!!

--

Coxie, the Scouse Manc
Remove nospam from my address to reply
ICQ 21559285
dacox@cableinet.nospamco.uk

Phil Brady wrote in message
<01bed45d$e1d48180$2d018f93@is20.bangor.ac.uk>...
>Dave Cox <cox@cableinetnospam.co.uk> wrote in article
>> GPS?
>>
>> Phil Brady wrote in message
>> <01bed2b1$79cbdb40$2d018f93@is20.bangor.ac.uk>...
>> >We were totally lost on the side of Tryfan on Friday trying to find
>Heather
>> >Terrace from the A5 end.  We climbed too high initially then found the
>> >terrace when we were forced to retreat down a nasty gulley.  The locals
>> >(two familiies of wild goats) were not very helpful, so can any member
>of
>> >this group give good pointers for finding it next time?
>> >Regards
>
>Dave,
>  I love those road runner cartoons where the poor bird finds itself
>falling hundreds of feet to the ground because of a tiny error in
>horizontal position.  GPS on Tryfan is very much like that!
>
>Phil
>
>







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Subject: A wee sassinachie speaks his wee mindey....the noo!
From: Dicky (corbettr@dircon.co.uk)

I am currently in the middle of a most enjoyable book by one Roland
Turnbull - yes, yes, I know he writes in "The Bible" I.a TGO Magazine.

During the course of his many trans-Scottish perambulatory locomotion's
across the great divide, which invariably includes wild camping and all that
that entails, our hero gives a  more than passing mention to the issue of
walkers dietary needs.
Included in his list of "must-take-with-me-at-all-costs" noshery items is
the dreaded native Scots dish usually referred to as "the haggis".
Now then, and considering the practical necessity that one must take account
of both weight and mass, not to mention the perishable propensities of such
a compound, how exactly would the lad have been able to both obtain and
store such an item of foodstuff within his rucksack and not end up
contaminating every other item on the grub list.
Even  more to the point, how would he have cooked it when camping high up in
that great wild, bairnie infested landscape?

I am well aware that the techniques of modern science have empowered many a
technical breakthrough in terms of dehydrated nosh, but is it yet possible
to obtain dehydrated haggis. If it is I would like to know from where or
whom one may obtain the stuff and if it is actually manufactured and stored
in a silver lined envelope is it really reconstituatable back into it's
original foul and unprepossessing form.

A simple question requiring an equally simple answer.

Richard Corbett







Subject: Re: Lyke Wake Walk
From: gwyn (postmaster@127.0.0.1)

On Thu, 22 Jul 1999 09:30:00 +0100, "Martin Smith"
<msm@paradigm-uk.com> wrote:

>By the way, isn't August 11th the day the sky goes dark ?

Not in North Yorkshire !! You maybe are thinking of Newquay thats
where I will be !!
--
Gwyn,       58 Wainwrights and 1 Munro
I have done the knowledge of the lakes.
gwyn@gwyn-gwynrem.freeserve.co.uk (remove rem = spamtrap)
                     (put this in place of reply address)




Subject: Re: Welsh pronunciation
From: Matti Lamprhey (matti@polka.bikini)

Keith Jones <keithr.jones69@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:7n85ed$jbq$1@nclient1-gui.server.virgin.net...
>
> Toni Davenport wrote in message <7n819v$k6h$1@epos.tesco.net>...
> >>Ok, most people agree its Truvvan,  (two vs) but where's the emphasis -
is
> >>it two syllables or one long one?
> >>
> >>Graham
> >
> >
> >I'm not Welsh but I always thought it was truv-vaan
> >
> >Toni
> >
> >But with no v in the Welsh alphabet, the f in Tryfan is a soft f sound
with
> a slight emphasis on it.

There's no v-letter, but a single f is sounded as a v.

Matti






Subject: Re: DOGS - Protection form Advice
From: Michael Farthing (mf@cyclades.demon.co.uk)

In article <932683485.972.76@news.remarQ.com>
           johngoldfine@acadia.net "John Goldfine" writes:

A delightful tale well-told with an unexpected finale.
Thank you.

-- 
Michael Farthing
cyclades
software house





Subject: Re: Unexpected free week
From: Chris Gilbert (chris.gilbert@ffs.nottingham.ac.uk)

Leonard Trim wrote:

>Funny enough Chris I had just e-mailed you to ask if you are the 
>Christopher immortalised in Memorable Munros. I had the mail returned 
>address unknown. 

Appologies. There is a spam trap in ther somewhere.

Is it me ?? Probably not :-)

So where are you going then, Mr Trim ?

Chris






Subject: Re: A wee sassinachie speaks his wee mindey....the noo!
From: Giles Ayling (giles@tvp-uk.demon.co.uk)

In article <3797e4ff@newsread3.dircon.co.uk>, Dicky
<corbettr@dircon.co.uk> writes
>I am currently in the middle of a most enjoyable book by one Roland
>Turnbull - yes, yes, I know he writes in "The Bible" I.a TGO Magazine.
>
>During the course of his many trans-Scottish perambulatory locomotion's
>across the great divide, which invariably includes wild camping and all that
>that entails, our hero gives a  more than passing mention to the issue of
>walkers dietary needs.
>Included in his list of "must-take-with-me-at-all-costs" noshery items is
>the dreaded native Scots dish usually referred to as "the haggis".
>Now then, and considering the practical necessity that one must take account
>of both weight and mass, not to mention the perishable propensities of such
>a compound, how exactly would the lad have been able to both obtain and
>store such an item of foodstuff within his rucksack and not end up
>contaminating every other item on the grub list.
>Even  more to the point, how would he have cooked it when camping high up in
>that great wild, bairnie infested landscape?
>
>I am well aware that the techniques of modern science have empowered many a
>technical breakthrough in terms of dehydrated nosh, but is it yet possible
>to obtain dehydrated haggis. If it is I would like to know from where or
>whom one may obtain the stuff and if it is actually manufactured and stored
>in a silver lined envelope is it really reconstituatable back into it's
>original foul and unprepossessing form.
>
>A simple question requiring an equally simple answer.
>
>Richard Corbett
>
>
>
[Tongue Firmly In Cheek]

Perhaps he takes a live haggis with him - as a companion, to carry other
noshery items etc., and only resorts to eating the haggis as a last
resort

Giles
Giles Ayling
              "Say nothing and they think you're a fool.
                  - Open your mouth, and prove it."




Subject: Re: DOGS - Protection form Advice
From: Alan Rose (alanr@vicinf.demon.co.uk)

In article <2ySd+HAFIzl3Ew52@g3snx.demon.co.uk>, Gordon Harris
<Gordon1@g3snx.demon.co.uk> writes
>In article <X8m1EHABdyl3EwMo@vicinf.demon.co.uk>, Alan Rose
><AlanR@vicinf.demon.co.uk> writes
>>Anyone tell me how I can get some of this?
>
>Bugger!
>You miss-pelt "from" in the Subject line and escaped my thread kill. :-)

Sorry Gordon, but I had hoped the dash would do the trick anyway.
-- 
Alan Rose




Subject: Re: DOGS - Protection form Advice
From: Alan Rose (alanr@vicinf.demon.co.uk)

In article <7n7pnv$guk$1@gxsn.com>, Bernard <bernard@ramsden.globalnet.c
o.uk> writes
>
>Alan Rose wrote in message ...
>>Anyone tell me how I can get some of this?
>>--
>>Alan Rose
>Which do you want protection from dogs or protection from advice about dogs?
>
>Bernard
>
>
I hate to spoil peoples fun but its the latter actually.
-- 
Alan Rose




Subject: Re: DOGS - Protection form Advice
From: John Goldfine (johngoldfine@acadia.net)

That's a horse of a different color then--you want protection from advice
about d-gs!  I will therefore give you advice on how to protect yourself
from advice about d-gs, but please understand that you will get NO further
advice from me about d-gs themselves.  Clearly a wasted effort!

First, hang around cat people.  They will have very little to offer you and
the d-g subject may never come up at all.

Next, never complain, never explain.  You may have shredded trousers, bloody
calves, and many ugly stitches--but don't be whining about some farmer's
border collie.  You'll be too likely to get advice, Alan!

Finally, may I suggest avoiding the occasion of sin altogether, i.e.,
perhaps walking is not the pastime for a man who wants protection from
advice about d-gs?  What about needlepoint, crochet, still life photography,
homebrewing, toby-jug collecting, and (perhaps) (may lead to reintro of
d-gs) gardening?

Best from John, Sean, Precious, and Curley....

Alan Rose wrote in message ...
>In article <7n7pnv$guk$1@gxsn.com>, Bernard <bernard@ramsden.globalnet.c
>o.uk> writes
>>
>>Which do you want protection from dogs or protection from advice about
dogs?
>>
>>Bernard
>>
>>
>I hate to spoil peoples fun but its the latter actually.
>--
>Alan Rose






Subject: Youth Walking
From: Acid Burn (georgy@project-people.com)

Does anyone know of any under 30's walking/hiking groups in Bristol type
area.

I've just moved and don't fancy going on my own all the time!

Cheers

Acid Burn






Subject: Re: Heather Terrace, Tryfan
From: Phil Brady (iss025@bangor.ac.uk)



Dave Cox <cox@cableinetnospam.co.uk> wrote in article
<7n8d9j$ont$1@news1.cableinet.co.uk>...
> If anyone trusts GPS to the foot, they deserve to go over the edge of a
> cliff!!
> 
Exactly Dave, that's the problem and I'm sorry of my comment came across as
sarcastic.  That side of Tryfan is so steep that the question you are
asking all the time is whether you are above or below the terrace.

Phil Brady

> --
> 
> Coxie, the Scouse Manc
> Remove nospam from my address to reply
> ICQ 21559285
> dacox@cableinet.nospamco.uk
> 
> Phil Brady wrote in message
> <01bed45d$e1d48180$2d018f93@is20.bangor.ac.uk>...
> >Dave Cox <cox@cableinetnospam.co.uk> wrote in article
> >> GPS?
> >>
> >> Phil Brady wrote in message
> >> <01bed2b1$79cbdb40$2d018f93@is20.bangor.ac.uk>...
> >> >We were totally lost on the side of Tryfan on Friday trying to find
> >Heather
> >> >Terrace from the A5 end.  We climbed too high initially then found
the
> >> >terrace when we were forced to retreat down a nasty gulley.  The
locals
> >> >(two familiies of wild goats) were not very helpful, so can any
member
> >of
> >> >this group give good pointers for finding it next time?
> >> >Regards
> >
> >Dave,
> >  I love those road runner cartoons where the poor bird finds itself
> >falling hundreds of feet to the ground because of a tiny error in
> >horizontal position.  GPS on Tryfan is very much like that!
> >
> >Phil
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 




Subject: Re: Heather Terrace, Tryfan
From: Phil Brady (iss025@bangor.ac.uk)

Thanks for all your helpful replies on this topic.  I'll have a go at it
again soon!

Phil





Subject: Re: Cairnless Summits
From: Paul Simonite (stationhouse@zetnet.co.uk)

I saw *NO* cairn atop the 'In Pin' last week :)
-- 
Cheers,

Paul (Compo) Simonite, Caithness





Subject: Re: DOGS - Protection form Advice
From: Alan Rose (alanr@vicinf.demon.co.uk)

In article <932733856.939.88@news.remarQ.com>, John Goldfine
<johngoldfine@acadia.net> writes
>That's a horse of a different color then--you want protection from advice
>about d-gs!  I will therefore give you advice on how to protect yourself
>from advice about d-gs, but please understand that you will get NO further
>advice from me about d-gs themselves.  Clearly a wasted effort!
>
>First, hang around cat people.  They will have very little to offer you and
>the d-g subject may never come up at all.

Is that cat people as in Natassia Kinski?!?
>
>Next, never complain, never explain.  You may have shredded trousers, bloody
>calves, and many ugly stitches--but don't be whining about some farmer's
>border collie.  You'll be too likely to get advice, Alan!

I wouldn't dream of complaining about bloody calves... their bloody
fathers though, now thats another beast altogether. 
>
>Finally, may I suggest avoiding the occasion of sin altogether, 
<rest snipped>
I said I didn't want advice, not a totally bloody miserable existence!

>Best from John, Sean, Precious, and Curley....
>
>Alan Rose wrote in message ...
>>In article <7n7pnv$guk$1@gxsn.com>, Bernard <bernard@ramsden.globalnet.c
>>o.uk> writes
>>>
>>>Which do you want protection from dogs or protection from advice about
>dogs?
>>>
>>>Bernard
>>>
>>>
>>I hate to spoil peoples fun but its the latter actually.
>>--
>>Alan Rose
>
>
Bye, I'm off to walk my dog now.
-- 
Alan Rose




Subject: Re: Cairnless Summits
From: Paul Simonite (stationhouse@zetnet.co.uk)

The message <1999072222230869453@zetnet.co.uk>
  from  Adrian Marsh Tupper <adrian.tupper@zetnet.co.uk> contains these words: 

> The trig point, of course, may not be on the summit either.
> -- 
> Adrian Tupper, Edinburgh


....as in Ladhar Bheinn.
-- 
Cheers,

Paul (Compo) Simonite, Caithness





Subject: Re: Cairnless Summits
From: Adrian Marsh Tupper (adrian.tupper@zetnet.co.uk)

The message <1999072314593682004@zetnet.co.uk>
  from  Paul Simonite <stationhouse@zetnet.co.uk> contains these words: 

> I saw *NO* cairn atop the 'In Pin' last week :)

Namedropper!
Is that the lot then?

Anyway, isn't it a one-stone cairn anyway?
-- 
Adrian Tupper, Edinburgh
adrian.tupper@zetnet.co.uk
McClassify's Munro Bagging on the Web
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/adriantupper/mindex.htm





Subject: Re: footwear for Morecambe Bay
From: martin clark (martin@gobsmack.overnight.to.defrost.freeserve.co.uk)

On Tue, 13 Jul 1999, Alan.Holmes wrote...
>
>Julian Flood wrote in message ...
>:I am off to do a guided walk across Morecambe Bay next week. I seem to
>:recall reading that trainers are better than boots. Is this so? Has anyone
>:here done the walk and can recommend the most sensible footwear for wet
>:sand?
>
>It's not just the sand, but the mud as well!
>
Bare feet are okay from the point where the walk leave the caravan site
to go onto the beach - until you reach the mud!

Following the advice of someone who had done the walk previously, I wore
a pair of extremely old and worn-out trainers which I then placed in a
bin at Grange-over-Sands. (I carried alternative footwear in my
rucksack!)
-- 
"maz"    Martin up in t' Pennines.
         The lights are on but there's no-one at home.

To reply: leave out overnight.to.defrost.




Subject: Re: Heather Terrace, Tryfan
From: Dave Cox (cox@cableinetnospam.co.uk)

I usually scan them map, print it & draw my walk first

--

Coxie, the Scouse Manc
Remove nospam from my address to reply
ICQ 21559285
dacox@cableinet.nospamco.uk

Trevor Dennis wrote in message ...
>Phil Brady said
>
>>  I love those road runner cartoons where the poor bird finds itself
>>falling hundreds of feet to the ground because of a tiny error in
>>horizontal position.  GPS on Tryfan is very much like that!
>
>I must admit to taking a fully programed GPS when climbing
>in a new location, but feel deeply ashamed if I ever need
>to take it out my pack.
>
>A huge side benefit is that having scanned the map - for
>use with OziExplorer - I can print out the route on a single
>sheet of A4, which is considerably more convenient than
>struggling with a square metre of OS Leisure series map
>on a windy hill side.
>
>Perhaps ironically, it's forests that test my navigation
>skills. I hate the bloody things.
>
>--
>Trevor Dennis                          trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk
>G6HVK                                           tdennis3@ford.com
>   I'm just clever enough to realize how little I really know






Subject: Re: A wee sassinachie speaks his wee mindey....the noo!
From: Dicky (corbettr@dircon.co.uk)


Giles Ayling <giles@tvp-uk.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1VwCSFAecCm3EACz@tvp-uk.demon.co.uk...
> [Tongue Firmly In Cheek]
>
> Perhaps he takes a live haggis with him - as a companion, to carry other
> noshery items etc., and only resorts to eating the haggis as a last
> resort

This is called "Utilisation of the Amderson Principle", or something like
that.
Mind you, I am under the impression that "the haggis" is a protected
species?

Richard Corbett






Subject: Re: military jumpers
From: Dr Aidan Rankin (aidanr@dircon.co.uk)

I am a collector of the military-style 'woolly pully' jumpers, made from
pure wool to MoD specifications, with the famous patches on the shoulder
and elbows.  I began wearing them in the 1970s when I was a schoolboy keen
on the Army, and now find them indispensable for outdoor pursuits (as well
as saving me much in heating bills at home in Yorkshire).  I have several
in the standard olive green, navy blue and air force blue, and also bottle
green, chocolate brown and pale green.  The reason why I am posting this is
that I am looking for 'woooly pullies' in other colours to add to my
collection and wear for walking in the winter months.  They are advertised
in old issues of 'Country Walking' magazine (which I also collect) but the
companies that makes them, Bridgedale, no longer seems to exist.  So it
seems impossible to buy them new in any colour other than the usual ones.
My size is 46"UK but 48" will fit comfortably too.  If any fellow walker
has any jumpers they no longer want, and might sell or give away, please
let me know.  I find them much better than the expesnive walking gear
that's advertised so much these days.
Best Wishes and greetings from the Yorkshire Dales.
Aidan Rankin




Subject: Re: A wee sassinachie speaks his wee mindey....the noo!
From: Ewan Crawford (ewan.crawford@lineone.net)



Giles Ayling wrote:

> In article <3797e4ff@newsread3.dircon.co.uk>, Dicky
> <corbettr@dircon.co.uk> writes
> >I am currently in the middle of a most enjoyable book by one Roland
> >Turnbull - yes, yes, I know he writes in "The Bible" I.a TGO Magazine.
> >
> >During the course of his many trans-Scottish perambulatory locomotion's
> >across the great divide, which invariably includes wild camping and all that
> >that entails, our hero gives a  more than passing mention to the issue of
> >walkers dietary needs.
> >Included in his list of "must-take-with-me-at-all-costs" noshery items is
> >the dreaded native Scots dish usually referred to as "the haggis".
> >Now then, and considering the practical necessity that one must take account
> >of both weight and mass, not to mention the perishable propensities of such
> >a compound, how exactly would the lad have been able to both obtain and
> >store such an item of foodstuff within his rucksack and not end up
> >contaminating every other item on the grub list.
> >Even  more to the point, how would he have cooked it when camping high up in
> >that great wild, bairnie infested landscape?
> >
> >I am well aware that the techniques of modern science have empowered many a
> >technical breakthrough in terms of dehydrated nosh, but is it yet possible
> >to obtain dehydrated haggis. If it is I would like to know from where or
> >whom one may obtain the stuff and if it is actually manufactured and stored
> >in a silver lined envelope is it really reconstituatable back into it's
> >original foul and unprepossessing form.
> >
> >A simple question requiring an equally simple answer.
> >
> >Richard Corbett
> >
> >
> >
> [Tongue Firmly In Cheek]
>
> Perhaps he takes a live haggis with him - as a companion, to carry other
> noshery items etc., and only resorts to eating the haggis as a last
> resort
>
> Giles
> Giles Ayling
>               "Say nothing and they think you're a fool.
>                   - Open your mouth, and prove it."

Certainly plenty of it about!!!

Ewan





Subject: Re: Lyke Wake Walk
From: john david myers (jdmyers@globalnet.co.uk)

WELL gotta confess to having done it many moons ago    any one beat 15 hours
20 mins....i will always remember this .Because i was absolutely knackered.
We took some kids from Crevesford School in Barnsley....they were only doing
half of it.We had a kid each....i was very impressed most did 10 to 20
miles. Out of about 20 adults only 5 finished.What an ordeal it was ,the
going was awful i seem to remember vanishing into waist deep bogs half the
time.
I believe it was closed to through walkers for some time quite recently
to allow some regeneration They also used to give you a coffin badge  to
commemorate the witches durge as a momento.
Anyone else know anything about its origins.

jdm
A Yorkshireman abroad.

Roger Chapman <r.chapman@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1999072223021768959@zetnet.co.uk...
> The message <7n5b9k$2n1$1@news4.svr.pol.co.uk>
>   from  "JD" <J.D.@norfolkandchance.freeserve.co.uk> contains these words:
>
> > Has anyone else got the L.W.W bug?. Attempted to walk it several times?
> > or done it in  quick time?...............Any storeys or experiences of
> > the walk, I would be interested in hearing for
> > you...........................Thanks and enjoy your walking
>
> I have done it 3 times but even the last crossing was a very long time
ago.
>
> What is a quick time? My old enemy Naismith would take something
> under 16 hours and from personal experience I would have thought it
> hard to walk it in much under 12 hours unless you were into race
> walking which I am not. IIRC my fastest time was 11 hours 22 minutes
> and that was a deliberate attempt at a quick crossing which even
> involved setting off some hours after the rest of the group (one of
> which had such bad knee trouble he gave up on the very last road
crossing).
>
> Emboldened by the above result I decided that the LWW in Summer was
> too easy so organised a meet in the middle of winter starting at
> midnight. Not surprisingly I had only 2 other takers (plus a small
> support party) and one of those dropped out before daybreak. It was
> very cold but there was not much snow about. However the snow had a
> breakable crust which did not exactly add to the enjoyment of
> walking. I think we took about 15 and a half hours that trip.
>
> The snow having held off for the walk waited until we had found
> ourselves a nice campsite up on the moors (IIRC on a re-entrant on
> the Wheeldale road with steep hills out on both sides) and then fell
> heavily for much of the night. It was with some difficulty that my
> Landrover towed the other vehicle (a Minivan) up one of the hills
> next morning. (We also had the outside lane on the Motorway all to
> ourselves on the way home, happy days?).
>
>






Subject: Re: campsite N of Whitby
From: Norman (nbevitt@enterprise.net)

On Thu, 22 Jul 1999 23:52:45 +0100, "MichaelDonoghue"
<Mick@donoghueswww.idps.co.uk> wrote:

>Youth Hostels busy on Yorks coast, so mixing with camping.
>Anyone know of good campsites north of Whitby? Preferably near/on coast.
>Mick
>
>
Hi Mick,

There used to be a camp site at the top of Lythe Bank. 
Just after the chapel at the top of Lythe Bank turn right and follow
winding farm lane to farm house. Fairly spartan ( WC and cold water
tap) but you have several fields to choose from and I think the charge
is about 1.00 a night. You can follow disused railway to Sandsend for
night out/food. There's a pub in Lythe, Goldsborough and two in
Sandsend.

Norman





Subject: Re: Youth Walking
From: Dave Pickles (davep@nugate.demon.co.uk)

"Acid Burn" <georgy@project-people.com> wrote:
>Does anyone know of any under 30's walking/hiking groups in Bristol type
>area.
>
>I've just moved and don't fancy going on my own all the time!
>
>Cheers
>
>Acid Burn

http://www.nugate.demon.co.uk/

-- 
Dave Pickles




Subject: Re: Best Lake District Camp Sites?
From: john david myers (jdmyers@globalnet.co.uk)

Gotta agree with Mark.....they used to do a lovely Cumberland Tatty pot
which went down without touching the sides ,,,and obviously topped off with
the obligatory Gallon.

jdm

Mark Edward <mark.edward@diamondGEEZER.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3795b31b.5650608@news.freeserve.net...
> On Wed, 21 Jul 1999 09:10:32 GMT, paulwade@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> >Can anybody recommend their favourite Lake District camp sites?
>
> I stayed at the Gillside site, in Glenridding last weekend, which was
> quite busy, but would fulfil all of your requirements, and is run by
> an very nice old lady who deserves your business.
>
> Purely for location (Pub + Mountains), another recommendation would
> have to be the site opposite the Wasdale Head Inn, if you don't mind
> sneaking into the NT site up the road to use the showers, not that i
> would ever be party to such naughtiness.
>
> cheerio,
> Mark
>
>
> Please remove the 'GEEZER' if replying by email






Subject: Re: Walking in Sutherland
From: john david myers (jdmyers@globalnet.co.uk)

We can do a better job than Saatchi & Saatchi you aint seen nothing
yet...hehe

jdm

ylh44 <Bagpuize@dial.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:7n7s2c$go4$1@lure.pipex.net...
> I thought this was an advert-free site.
>
> :-}
>
> Bagpuize
>
> jimbo wrote in message <7n2c6j$g3a$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>...
> >Visit this site. www.vacations-scotland.co.uk/rhiconich.html
> >
> >
>
>






Subject: Re: Umbrella
From: john david myers (jdmyers@globalnet.co.uk)

Well if any one saw Cameron Mcneish on one of his jaunts into the high Atlas
with Hamish Brown he certainly gave them his seal of approval.
Didnt like the colour though:-(
jdm
A Yorkshire man abroad

Paul Richardson <paulrichardson@milkwood.cix.co.uk> wrote in message
news:memo.19990720201037.9919A@paulrichardson.compulink.co.uk...
>
>
> It look as if umbrellas are making a come-back on the walking scene. I
> wonder if they'll take off?
>
> --
> Paul Richardson
> paulrichardson@milkwood.cix.co.uk






Subject: Re: campsite N of Whitby
From: Bob Douglas (bob@antispam.douglas66.freeserve.co.uk)

Norman wrote in message <3798cbd2.1477367@news.enterprise.net>...
>Hi Mick,
>
>There used to be a camp site at the top of Lythe Bank.
>Just after the chapel at the top of Lythe Bank turn right and follow
>winding farm lane to farm house. Fairly spartan ( WC and cold water
>tap) but you have several fields to choose from and I think the charge
>is about 1.00 a night. You can follow disused railway to Sandsend for
>night out/food. There's a pub in Lythe, Goldsborough and two in
>Sandsend.


>From memory (many years have passed) it's Deepgrove Farm (or something
similar). Just as described, basic but quiet with access to the old railway
across the farm fields.

If it is still functioning I'd like to know, as considered going back some
time.

Bob






Subject: Re: New "Cooling Boots" from Timberland
From: john david myers (jdmyers@globalnet.co.uk)

See what i mean........:-)))
jdm

Keep Scotland Bonnie

Immerner <immerner@bs-enterprises.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:932472841.2366.0.nnrp-03.c2dea87d@news.demon.co.uk...
> (COMTEX)     B: (TBL) Timberland to Unveil First 'Cooling' Hiking Boots U
> B: (TBL) Timberland to Unveil First 'Cooling' Hiking Boots Using
ComforTemp
> Materials From Frisby
>
>  BAY SHORE, N.Y., Jul 20, 1999 (BUSINESS WIRE via COMTEX) --
> FrisbyTechnologies, Inc. (Nasdaq:FRIZ), the developer of patented
> ComforTemp(R) DCC(TM), the No. 1 brand of dynamic thermal management
> materials, announced that The Timberland Company (NYSE:TBL) will unveil
> the industry's first "cooling" hiking boots, using Frisby technology,
> at next month's Outdoor Retailer Summer Market in Salt Lake City.
>
> Timberland will use ComforTemp(R) initially in three models of its
> latest hiking and trail running footwear. For the first time, wearers
> of those new offerings will find a cooler inside temperature combined
> with an ability to maintain a comfortable environment for an extended
> period of time. The first three models available for Spring 2000 are:
> the Aspen Trail, for recreational hiking and weekends outdoors; Rocky
> Pass, a light, fast, breathable hiking boot for summer or warm
> climates, and the Trail Seeker, designed for avidtrail runners who run
> on rugged terrain.
>
> "These models are truly climate control systems for the feet," said Jay
> Steere, director o marketing for Timberland's men's and performance
> division. "In warmer weather conditions, feet tend to get hotter much
> more quickly. ComforTemp addresses this issue by providing relief
> immediately. This is the first technology that provides a smart
> solution to an age-old problem."
>
> Greg Frisby, chairman and chief executive officer, commented:
> "Timberland is a recognized global market leader in the outdoor
> footwear business. With its first-class design, cutting-edge technology
> and superior performance, Timberland is the perfect partner for us to
> establish a new standard for climate control comfort and performance
> with ComforTemp DCC materials." ComforTemp is powered by a dynamic
> climate control material that stores and releases heat at a
> predetermined temperature, either to cool or maintain warmth
> forthefoot.
>
> The Timberland Company, headquartered in Stratham, New Hampshire,
> designs, engineers, markets, distributes and sells premium-quality
> footwear, apparel, and accessories for men, women, and children.
> Timberland(R) products are sold in the U.S. and internationally through
> independent retailers and better-grade department stores, in addition
> to Timberland's own retail locations. Shares of Timberland's Class A
> Common Stock are traded publicly on the New York Stock Exchange under
> the symbol TBL.
>
> Frisby Technologies is a global leader in the development of dynamic
> thermal management solutions for the apparel, footwear and sporting
> goods, packaging, home furnishings, healthcare and electronics
> industries. ComforTemp(R) insulating and cooling foams and fabrics can
> be found in products from major manufacturers such as RLX Polo,
> Titleist and FootJoy Worldwide, Orvis, Wells Lamont, Bell Sports,
> LaCrosse Footwear and Schoeller Textil. For more information, contact
> Frisby Technologies at (877) 444-COMFORT, visitthe ComforTemp(R) Web
> site at www.comfortemp.com, or join the Frisby electronic news
> distribution list by sending your e-mail address to
> investors@frisby.com.
>
> This press release contains certain forward-looking statements that
> relate to Frisby Technologies' future plans and objectives. Those
> statements are subject to numerous risks and uncertainties that could
> cause actual results, performance and achievements to differ materially
> from those described or implied in the forward-looking statements, and
> reported results should not be considered an indication of future
> performance. Those potential risks and uncertainties include without
> limitation the uncertainty of the economic environment for the
> remainder of this year, the need for further development of certain of
> Frisby Technologies' products and markets, the development of
> alternative technologies by third parties, the uncertainty of market
> acceptance and demand for the company's products in the future, and
> Year 2000 issues affecting the company and its customers and suppliers.
> Those potential risks and uncertainties are detailed in Frisby
> Technologies' filings on Form 10-KSB for 1998 and Forms 10-QSB with the
> Securities and Exchange Commission.
>
>
>
>  Copyright (C) 1999 Business Wire.  All rights reserved.
>   -0-
>  CONTACT:       Frisby Technologies, Bay Shore
>                 Stephen Villa, Chief Financial Officer, 516/969-8570
>
>  WEB PAGE:      http://www.businesswire.com
>
>  GEOGRAPHY:     NEW YORK NEW HAMPSHIRE
>
>  INDUSTRY CODE: APPAREL/TEXTILES
>                 RETAIL
>                 PRODUCT
>
>  Today's News On The Net - Business Wire's full file on the Internet
>  with Hyperlinks to your home page.
>
> ***  end of story  ***
>
>
>






Subject: Re: via ferrata in Slovenia
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?"Markus_G._Kl=F6tzer"_ (mgk999@gmx.net)


J Dixon wrote in message <7n4u9i$j2m$1@gxsn.com>...
:We are going on holiday next week in Slovenia based at Kransjka Gora. I
:believe that there are some via ferrata type routes around but no decent
:guide book in English. We have enjoyed this typeof root in the Dolomites
:especially the ones in about the mid range of difficulty and wonder if
:anyone could recommend some Slovenia routes.
:



I enjoyed some 12 years ago a trip up "Grosser Mangart" but I do not have
any details available at the moment

Markus






Subject: Re: Walking in Eskdale
From: Pedt Scragg (newsmaster@pedt.demon.co.uk)

robert.adam.smith <mailto:robert.adam.smith@tinyonline.co.uk> said: 

>Any good info welcome
>
Which Eskdale ?
-- 
Pedt

Veni; Vidi; Visa ... I came, I saw, I did a little shopping




Subject: Re: campsite N of Whitby
From: Brian Cowling (bcowling@dircon.co.uk)



MichaelDonoghue <Mick@donoghueswww.idps.co.uk> wrote in article
<teNl3.5532$Yl.4107@wards>...
> Youth Hostels busy on Yorks coast, so mixing with camping.
> Anyone know of good campsites north of Whitby? Preferably near/on coast.
> Mick
> 
> 
Mick,
I can recommend:-
Runswick Bay Caravan & Caravan Camping Park, Hinderwell Lane, Runswick Bay,
TS13 5HR. 01947 840997. Almost on the Cleveland Way. Showers/toilet. Shop &
Pub next door.
Brian





Subject: Re: Countryside March
From: Mike (mpetrs@cleatsglobalnet.co.uk)

On this day Thu, 22 Jul 1999 18:29:55 GMT, user@crux.u-net.com (Richard
Webb) hammered out this message and gave forth this offering:


>If Blair does keep pushing the hunting ban, we may have several such 
>opportunties this coming winter
>
>R Webb

I thought he only intends to ban hunting with dogs. 

Perhaps the "thousands" who who will be made unemployed by the ban could jog
along in place of the dogs...far healthier than riding around in landrovers
with two way radios guiding the fox towards the hunters.

Mike

Remove "cleats" before useing Email 




Subject: Re: Pembrokeshire Coast Path: How much ascent?
From: Brian Cowling (bcowling@dircon.co.uk)



Paul Richardson <paulrichardson@milkwood.cix.co.uk> wrote in article
<memo.19990721212251.3615B@paulrichardson.compulink.co.uk>...
> 
> Could anyone kindly tell me how much ascent is involved in walking the 
> Pembrokeshire Coast Path from north to south? It's virtually 
> impossible to calculate this from the maps.

In the National Trail Guide - "Pembrokeshire Coast Path" (page 22), author
Brian John states that if you walk the whole route you will climb over
30,000 feet (9,150 metres) in the process.

Brian




Subject: Re: A wee sassinachie speaks his wee mindey....the noo!
From: Lachie Macquarie (lachie@lachiemacq.demon.co.uk)

In article <3797e4ff@newsread3.dircon.co.uk>, Dicky
<corbettr@dircon.co.uk> writes
>I am currently in the middle of a most enjoyable book by one Roland
>Turnbull - yes, yes, I know he writes in "The Bible" I.a TGO Magazine.
>
>I am well aware that the techniques of modern science have empowered many a
>technical breakthrough in terms of dehydrated nosh, but is it yet possible
>to obtain dehydrated haggis. If it is I would like to know from where or
>whom one may obtain the stuff and if it is actually manufactured and stored
>in a silver lined envelope is it really reconstituatable back into it's
>original foul and unprepossessing form.
>
>A simple question requiring an equally simple answer.
>
>Richard Corbett
>
>
>
Dickie on walking from the car park at Rowardennan to the pub we silly
Scotch prepared this.

1.5kg lamb shoulder                     2 large onions
butter                                  generous pinch saffron
600ml beef stock                        4 tbs. lemon juice
salt, pepper                            2 bunches fresh parsley
6 large sprigs fresh mint               5 stalks rhubarb

Trim excess fat from meat and cut into 2.5cm cubes. Brown the onions in
2 tbs. butter, slowly at first, then hotter to add colour. Push to one
side and brown the meat. Add saffron and stir. Then add stock, juice and
seasoning, and simmer gently for an hour. 

Chop the parsley finely with the mint and fry lightly in another 2 tbs.
butter, then add to the stew and continue to simmer for another half
hour or so. Cut the rhubarb into 2-4cm lengths, add to the stew and
continue to simmer for about another 15 minutes. 

Transfer the meat to a serving dish, then skim the fat from the stew and
boil the liquid hard until the flavour is concentrated to your liking.
Serve on lots of rice to soak up the juices.


Absolutely delicious. I will stick to chittling.
-- 
Lachie Macquarie, Bod an Deamhain I wish.




Subject: Re: military jumpers
From: Dr Aidan Rankin (aidanr@dircon.co.uk)



Andrew Nichols <Andy@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
<+38HMGAQ+Wm3EwxF@solicit.demon.co.uk>...
> In article <01bed52e$63be9980$LocalHost@default>, Dr Aidan Rankin
> <aidanr@dircon.co.uk> writes
> >I am a collector of the military-style 'woolly pully' jumpers
> You are one sad creature:-)
> -- 
> Andrew Nichols
>                 NB spamtrap

and you are rude suburban prat.  If you have nothing worthwhile to say, say
nowt.
> 




Subject: Re: military jumpers
From: Andrew Nichols (andy@nospam.demon.co.uk)

In article <01bed52e$63be9980$LocalHost@default>, Dr Aidan Rankin
<aidanr@dircon.co.uk> writes
>I am a collector of the military-style 'woolly pully' jumpers
You are one sad creature:-)
-- 
Andrew Nichols
                NB spamtrap




Subject: Re: military jumpers
From: terry norman (scott@tiger9.freeserve.co.uk)

I've often wondered about high-tech (and high-price!) kit in comparison to
traditional materials. I read somewhere I think in a sailing mag about a
test where various jackets were sprayed with water for a time and an
underlying garment weighed before and after to see how wet it got. Top of
range offshore sailing jackets won of course, but respectably placed above
some cheaper waterproofs was a standard army battledress jacket.

Terry.

Dr Aidan Rankin <aidanr@dircon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:01bed52e$63be9980$LocalHost@default...
> I am a collector of the military-style 'woolly pully' jumpers, made from
> pure wool to MoD specifications, with the famous patches on the shoulder
> and elbows.  I began wearing them in the 1970s when I was a schoolboy keen
> on the Army, and now find them indispensable for outdoor pursuits (as well
> as saving me much in heating bills at home in Yorkshire).  I have several
> in the standard olive green, navy blue and air force blue, and also bottle
> green, chocolate brown and pale green.  The reason why I am posting this
is
> that I am looking for 'woooly pullies' in other colours to add to my
> collection and wear for walking in the winter months.  They are advertised
> in old issues of 'Country Walking' magazine (which I also collect) but the
> companies that makes them, Bridgedale, no longer seems to exist.  So it
> seems impossible to buy them new in any colour other than the usual ones.
> My size is 46"UK but 48" will fit comfortably too.  If any fellow walker
> has any jumpers they no longer want, and might sell or give away, please
> let me know.  I find them much better than the expesnive walking gear
> that's advertised so much these days.
> Best Wishes and greetings from the Yorkshire Dales.
> Aidan Rankin






Subject: Re: military jumpers
From: Dr Aidan Rankin (aidanr@dircon.co.uk)



terry norman <scott@tiger9.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in article
<7nc7s2$jp9$1@news4.svr.pol.co.uk>...
> I've often wondered about high-tech (and high-price!) kit in comparison
to
> traditional materials. I read somewhere I think in a sailing mag about a
> test where various jackets were sprayed with water for a time and an
> underlying garment weighed before and after to see how wet it got. Top of
> range offshore sailing jackets won of course, but respectably placed
above
> some cheaper waterproofs was a standard army battledress jacket.
> 
> Terry.
> 
>
None of this surprises me at all.  I recall many occasions in my Yorkshire
Dales walking group where the people in high tech, high price 'gear' end up
over-heated and soaked.  It is another area where commercialism has taken
over.  Another point about this clothing is that it is modernistic and
ugly, and gives walkers a bad name.  In country districts it is referred to
as 'colour pollution'.

Aidan





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Subject: Re: military jumpers
From: Paul Upham (paul.upham@btinternet.com)


terry norman wrote in message <7nc7s2$jp9$1@news4.svr.pol.co.uk>...
>I've often wondered about high-tech (and high-price!) kit in comparison to
>traditional materials. I read somewhere I think in a sailing mag about a
>test where various jackets were sprayed with water for a time and an
>underlying garment weighed before and after to see how wet it got. Top of
>range offshore sailing jackets won of course, but respectably placed above
>some cheaper waterproofs was a standard army battledress jacket.
>

It not really very ssurprising when you think about it. What is the role of
the Army for example?  In time of conflict or peacekeeping, as we are
presently doing in Kosovo, the average soldier is outdoors, in all terrains
and all weather conditions. The standard Army uniform clothing has been
designed and developed to offer the best protection in clothing that is
suitable for the job and will not impede the soldiers primary duties. Hence
the clothing has to be good.

Regards

Paul






Subject: Re: Walking in Eskdale
From: Nigel Cliffe (ncliffe@btinternet.xgarbagex.com)

In article <3798f765@news2.vip.uk.com>, "robert.adam.smith"
<robert.adam.smith@tinyonline.co.uk> wrote:

> Any good info welcome

Western Lake District one is fine. Anything from valley river rambles to
walks up England's highest mountains. Everything in between. Paths and
signs in decent order. Never had a problems over access anywhere. Even seen
a red squirrel or two! And for the Lakes, remarkably quiet. The Woolpack
pub is recommended. 

But you probably meant a different Eskdale....


- Nigel

-- 
Nigel Cliffe, BT Labs, Martlesham.     
 check the reply address for garbage         




Subject: Re: A wee sassinachie speaks his wee mindey....the noo!
From: Dicky (corbettr@dircon.co.uk)

....are you saying that the resp below is for "yer actual haggis"?

I was always lead to believe that "the wee mcgurgitatey" ended up compressed
inside a dead sheep's bladder and to get at this stimulating yet
nutritionally challenging  hunger pang diminisher, it was necessary for the
would be eater to tear the actual bladder apart, plunge the quivering hand
inside said bladder and scoop out it's contents which would then be
presented to the unsuspecting cake-hole where a continuation of the laws of
demand, supply and consumption would be most ably demonstrated.

Tell me I have it all wrong, I'm open to any useful information.

Richard Corbett - The Scotsman's friend.

Lachie Macquarie <Lachie@lachiemacq.demon.co.uk> wrote in message > Dickie
on walking from the car park at Rowardennan to the pub we silly
> Scotch prepared this.
>
> 1.5kg lamb shoulder                     2 large onions
> butter                                  generous pinch saffron
> 600ml beef stock                        4 tbs. lemon juice
> salt, pepper                            2 bunches fresh parsley
> 6 large sprigs fresh mint               5 stalks rhubarb
>
> Trim excess fat from meat and cut into 2.5cm cubes. Brown the onions in
> 2 tbs. butter, slowly at first, then hotter to add colour. Push to one
> side and brown the meat. Add saffron and stir. Then add stock, juice and
> seasoning, and simmer gently for an hour.
>
> Chop the parsley finely with the mint and fry lightly in another 2 tbs.
> butter, then add to the stew and continue to simmer for another half
> hour or so. Cut the rhubarb into 2-4cm lengths, add to the stew and
> continue to simmer for about another 15 minutes.
>
> Transfer the meat to a serving dish, then skim the fat from the stew and
> boil the liquid hard until the flavour is concentrated to your liking.
> Serve on lots of rice to soak up the juices.







Subject: Map reading courses - Lincolnshire
From:  (mrsscooper@hotmail.com)

Hi
I'm pretty rusting and it has been a long while.  I was hoping you may
be able to provide information of centres that hold course that may help
in the Lincolnshire area.

Please reply direct to me at  mrsscooper@hotmail.com

Thank you for your help.
Mrs Sharon Cooper




Subject: Re: Map reading courses - Lincolnshire
From: Dicky (corbettr@dircon.co.uk)

Allow me to speak frankly dear lady.
Lincolnshire, as we all know, is so flat that if you look out of your window
on Sunday, you will see who is coming to visit you on Wednesday.
Thus I put it to you that map reading skills are quite unnecessary if you
live in Lincolnshire.

Richard Corbett
PS: If you do a web search under "Roger Smith", you will come across a very
good book on basic map and compass work.

<mrsscooper@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:xAhEGPAc8cm3EwTu@dobx.demon.co.uk...
> Hi
> I'm pretty rusting and it has been a long while.  I was hoping you may
> be able to provide information of centres that hold course that may help
> in the Lincolnshire area.
>
> Please reply direct to me at  mrsscooper@hotmail.com
>
> Thank you for your help.
> Mrs Sharon Cooper






Subject: new website - health and fitness
From: Kathryn Anne Wald (prevention_now@tesco.net)

The Prevention Now Team represents USANA cellular nutritional Products. The
USANA philosophy is that optimal health comes from providing nutrition and
care for the entire body, not focusing on individual symptoms or organs.

"Exercising without nutritional protection is downright unhealthy.
Increasing the body's protective reserve of nutrient antioxidants minimises
the destruction of cellular membranes and reduces wear and tear on muscles
during heavy exercise. That is why athletes need to consider an adequate
nutritional system of high-potency supplements to aid in their training. "
Dr. Michael Colgan... Colgan Institute of Sports Nutrition.

Provide your body with what it needs to stay healthy, rather than treating
illnesses after they have developed.

It's time to take living seriously!

http://homepages.tesco.net/~prevention_now              or

http://home.westman.wave.ca/~prevent

Yours in health

Kathryn Anne Wald
Prevention NOW - USANA
prevention_now@tesco.net






Subject: Re: HappyHappy JoyJoy (Lakes TR)
From: Paul Saunders (pvs@breathemail.net)

Actually, I must apologise for my previous statement;
"And cold?  It's the middle of summer for Crissake! "

I just spent a couple of days camping in the hills and I was surprised just
how cold and windy it was up there (this was before the sun came back out).

Odd thing is, I've been camping in the hills all through the winter, in all
weathers, and the cold weather didn't bother me in the slightest, yet a
couple of days ago I was freezing!

I'm sure this must be a psychological phenomenon.  In the winter you expect
to be cold so you aren't surprised if you are, besides, you take plenty of
warm clothing to protect you so you generally aren't cold.

In the summer you expect it to be warm so you don't take much clothing.  If
the temperature's lower than you expect it comes as a bit of a shock, and
you don't have sufficient clothing to protect you from it so it feels
"relatively" colder.

Maybe that's why I prefer camping in the winter.   :-)

Paul






Subject: ME Down Jacket/Rab Down Bag
From: James Grove (james@iceworld.freeserve.co.uk)


	Well I still haven`t sold it! Not really the right time of year. 
So I am know open to sensible offers.
	
	ME Annurpurna Gore-DryLoft Down Jacket Black/Large Never Used.

	Rab Premiere 900 Shelter Outer Down Bag Used twice. Superb 
condition. 

-- 
James Grove
Voice: 0121 602 1901
Fax: 0121 602 0857




Subject: Don't You Just Hate...
From: Keith Jones (keithr.jones69@virgin.net)

it when you're on a nice quiet walk in the north Wales Carneddau (on Foel
Grach to be exact)
and the peace and tranquility is shattered by:
i microlites; ii pleasure trip planes iii ditto helicopters.
Any other pet hates when walking the hills






Subject: Blisters
From: Keith Jones (keithr.jones69@virgin.net)

For the first time in over 20 years I've got blisters!!
What is the NG's suggestions to treat/relieve them?
Expectanctly
Keith






Subject: Re: Don't You Just Hate...
From: Peter Russell (prlf@globalnet.co.uk)

People who walk and talk into bits of plastic attached to their ears!

--
PeteR


Keith Jones <keithr.jones69@virgin.net> wrote in message
> Any other pet hates when walking the hills







Subject: Re: new website - health and fitness
From: Dicky (corbettr@dircon.co.uk)


Kathryn Anne Wald <prevention_now@tesco.net> wrote in message
news:7nclpo$kho$1@barcode.tesco.net...

> It's time to take living seriously!

No matter how seriously one takes the actual act of living, speaking for
myself I would take the act of dying even more seriously.

The question is "How do I ensure that I can live forever"

All suggestions on a postcard please.....

Richard Corbett








Subject: Re: Blisters
From: Dicky (corbettr@dircon.co.uk)

What you should have done is take steps to avoid getting them in the first
place.
Here is my patented blister preventer methodology.

The Heels of one's feet
--------------------------------
Cut two 6" lengths of 2" deep sticking plaster and place around the heels
before putting on the socks.

The rest of one's feet
----------------------------
Rub Vaseline into every other exposed piece of the feet then put on the
socks and "walk your sock off" - as they say in the trade.

I give my personal guarantee that this method is fool proof and will never
fail under any conditions whatsoever.

Richard Corbett - D.O.R (Dr of Feetology)

Keith Jones <keithr.jones69@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:7ndc1m$9pj$1@nclient15-gui.server.virgin.net...
> For the first time in over 20 years I've got blisters!!
> What is the NG's suggestions to treat/relieve them?
> Expectanctly
> Keith
>
>






Subject: Re: Walking in Eskdale
From: Adrian Marsh Tupper (adrian.tupper@zetnet.co.uk)

The message <ncliffe-ya023080002407991504270001@news.axion.bt.co.uk>
  from  ncliffe@btInternet.XgarbageX.com (Nigel Cliffe) contains these words: 

> > Any good info welcome

> Western Lake District one is fine. Anything from valley river rambles to
> walks up England's highest mountains. Everything in between. Paths and
> signs in decent order. Never had a problems over access anywhere. Even seen
> a red squirrel or two! And for the Lakes, remarkably quiet. The Woolpack
> pub is recommended. 

Agree with all of that.

It's also the best (IMO) staring point for Sca Fell.  You can also 
nip up Harter Fell after an early tea before settling down in the Woolpack.

> But you probably meant a different Eskdale....

Well there's a couple of Esks near me and make nice walking in  their 
own sweet way.
-- 
Adrian Tupper, Edinburgh
adrian.tupper@zetnet.co.uk
McClassify's Munro Bagging on the Web
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/adriantupper/mindex.htm





Subject: Climbing / Mountian walking partner wanted (Living in the Gloucester area)
From: bloke (bloke@breathemail.net)

I am looking for someone (male or female) who would like to climb and or
walk on a regular basis.

I am 34 quite fit but would like to climb and walk more than I do, I have my
own transport, climbing and walking gear.

I live in the Cheltenham / Gloucester area but would like to walk in the
Welsh  / Scottish mountians.

Tel. Mike on 0973320437. or e.mail bloke@breathemail.netI






Subject: Re: A wee sassinachie speaks his wee mindey....the noo!
From: Stuart Baldwin (stuart@boxatrix.demon.co.uk)

On Fri, 23 Jul 1999 04:42:45 +0100, "Dicky" <corbettr@dircon.co.uk>
wrote:

>I am currently in the middle of a most enjoyable book by one Roland
>Turnbull - yes, yes, I know he writes in "The Bible" I.a TGO Magazine.
>
If TGO's The Bible, what does that make TAC?

(Assuming it's still going -  I've not purchased it for a couple of
months.)
-- 
Stuart Baldwin




Subject: Re: Blisters
From: news.demon.co.uk (ruth-n-jon@otter2.demon.co.uk)

I've always had a problem with blisters (being a woman with large feet
ending up wearing a boot made on a man's last.)  I recommend popping them
and making sure that they are fully drained and then putting on a "Compeed".
If you haven't come across these you can buy them from most chemists and
they are the best thing going!  They are hi-tech plasters that drain liquid
away from the site while padding it sufficiently to allow you to continue
walking.  They are very rugged and do not peel off as plasters do.
Keith Jones <keithr.jones69@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:7ndc1m$9pj$1@nclient15-gui.server.virgin.net...
> For the first time in over 20 years I've got blisters!!
> What is the NG's suggestions to treat/relieve them?
> Expectanctly
> Keith
>
>






Subject: Re: new website - health and fitness
From: Deano (deano@jd.co.uk)


Dicky wrote in message <379a415f@newsread3.dircon.co.uk>...
>
>Kathryn Anne Wald <prevention_now@tesco.net> wrote in message
>news:7nclpo$kho$1@barcode.tesco.net...
>
>> It's time to take living seriously!
>
>No matter how seriously one takes the actual act of living, speaking for
>myself I would take the act of dying even more seriously.

**Dying? An act? Surely not, more a matter of certainty which will
inevitably prevail. Our only function on this planet is to pass on our
genes. What you do in between is survival; it's purely biological.

>The question is "How do I ensure that I can live forever"


**Teach people taxidermy :)

>All suggestions on a postcard please.....


** When I reach the Land of the Dead, I'll send you one.

Deano








Subject: Re: new website - health and fitness
From: Matthew (matt22@btinternet.com)

TaLk EnGlisH mAn.
Dicky wrote in message <379a415f@newsread3.dircon.co.uk>...
>
>Kathryn Anne Wald <prevention_now@tesco.net> wrote in message
>news:7nclpo$kho$1@barcode.tesco.net...
>
>> It's time to take living seriously!
>
>No matter how seriously one takes the actual act of living, speaking for
>myself I would take the act of dying even more seriously.
>
>The question is "How do I ensure that I can live forever"
>
>All suggestions on a postcard please.....
>
>Richard Corbett
>
>
>
>






Subject: Re: Don't You Just Hate...
From: Pedt Scragg (newsmaster@pedt.demon.co.uk)

Keith Jones <mailto:keithr.jones69@virgin.net> said: 

>it when you're on a nice quiet walk in the north Wales Carneddau (on Foel
>Grach to be exact)
>and the peace and tranquility is shattered by:
>i microlites; ii pleasure trip planes iii ditto helicopters.
>Any other pet hates when walking the hills
>
iv) When passing a walking group of 40 or so and all of them insist on 
    saying "Good Morning" or equivalent.
v)  Airforce Jet at Supersonic speed that whizzes past at some low 
    altitude above your head.

-- 
Pedt

Veni; Vidi; Visa ... I came, I saw, I did a little shopping




Subject: Re: Don't You Just Hate...
From: Martin Richardson (martinr@thequiff.demon.co.uk)

In article <vKJHpNA8+om3YwpC@pedt.demon.co.uk>, Pedt Scragg
<newsmaster@pedt.demon.co.uk> writes
>Keith Jones <mailto:keithr.jones69@virgin.net> said: 
>
>v)  Airforce Jet at Supersonic speed that whizzes past at some low 
>    altitude above your head.
>
I will these to crash and die. Unfortunately, thus far I've not been
successful.

vi)  Just when you think you've got the mountain to yourself round the
corner appears a Wallace Arnold coachload of people.


Welcome to the (~uiff Woodsave  

Martin Richardson               martinr@thequiff.demon.co.uk







Subject: Re: Heather Terrace, Tryfan
From: James Grove (james@iceworld.freeserve.co.uk)

In article <7n8d9j$ont$1@news1.cableinet.co.uk>, 
cox@cableinetnospam.co.uk says...
> If anyone trusts GPS to the foot, they deserve to go over the edge of a
> cliff!!

	I`ll second that

-- 
James Grove
Fax: 0121 602 0857




Subject: Re: Don't You Just Hate...
From: Mark Wilden (mark@wilden16.freeserve.co.uk)

Peter Russell <prlf@globalnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7ndf0k$n0i$1@gxsn.com...
> People who walk and talk into bits of plastic attached to their ears!

I've never understood this, myself. Why is that more annoying than people
who walk and talk to other people? Is it because one can't eavesdrop on both
halves of the conversation? :)

Anyway, it doesn't bother me. Even if it did, it wouldn't matter, since as a
fairly fast walker I'd be past them in a moment.






Subject: Re: Don't You Just Hate...
From: Joseph Finlay (joseph@jfinl.demon.co.uk)

In article <7ndc5a$9qt$1@nclient15-gui.server.virgin.net>, Keith Jones
<keithr.jones69@virgin.net> writes
>it when you're on a nice quiet walk in the north Wales Carneddau (on Foel
>Grach to be exact)
>and the peace and tranquility is shattered by:
>i microlites; ii pleasure trip planes iii ditto helicopters.
>Any other pet hates when walking the hills

hills?


-- 
Joseph Finlay




Subject: Bamford Edge Peak District
From: robert hampson (hampson@unisonfree.net)

Does anyone know of a way up onto this edge?
From the village it looks quite interesting but there aren't any paths
marked on the Outdoor Leisure map.  I have seen a photograph published on
the front of "Peak and Pennine magazine showing a walker standing on the
edge but there wasn't an article about access.






Subject: Re: Don't You Just Hate...
From: Michael Connell (mconnell@lineone.net)


Paul Upham <paul.upham@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:7nf2pa$d41$1@neptunium.btinternet.com...
>
> >i microlites; ii pleasure trip planes iii ditto helicopters.
> >Any other pet hates when walking the hills
> >
> Personally, I will never complain at the sight/sound of a helicopter. One
> day, I may just be the poor sod one of them saves!
>
> Paul
>
If it's the same choppers I was cursing yesterday during a 3000ers walk,
they:

1.    Were certainly not rescue helicopters
2.    Might make work for the rescue - they were going uncomfortably close
to take a look at some climbers.

Mike






Subject: Re: Lyke Wake Walk
From: Michael Farthing (mf@cyclades.demon.co.uk)

In article <7nain4$lmk$1@gxsn.com>
           jdmyers@globalnet.co.uk "john david myers" writes:

> Anyone else know anything about its origins.

It really is rather fun.

The walk was suggested by Bill Cowley in The Dalesman in August
1955:

  "At this point, a little carried away by my own eloquence, I
   issued a challenge to anyone to get from Scarth Wood Moor ..
   Wyke Point at Ravenscar..in 24 hours on his own feet"

The several elder members of this newsgroup might also be grateful for
the information that the time limit is extended by 12 hours for each
5 years of age over 65.

The joy of this proposed walk was that it could be entirely on
heather, with the prospect that not a soul would be met.  The
success of the challenge means that neither of these two
raison d'etre still apply.

Officinados join the Lyke Wake Club, which rather ressembles the
Masons in its elaborate rictuals, except that it doesn't seem
to take itself quite so seriously (even when sober).  It holds
Wakes presided over by its chief officers, in order of precedence:

    The Most Mournful the Chief Dirger
    The Melancholy Mace-bearer and the Horrible Horn-blower
    The Misguided Foundation Members
    The Cheerless Chaplain
    The Anxious Almoner
    The Sorrowful Shroud Supplier
    The Miserable Bier Carriers
    The Wretched and Erronious Recorder
    The Harassed Archivists
    The Pro-Vice-Chancellor, Chaitrman of the Court of Past Masters
    Past Masters in order of Passing        (3)
    Doctors of Dolefulness in order of Dole (2)
    Masters of Misery in order of Mastery   (1)
    Witches in order of Witchery            (4)
    Dirgers in Order of Tribulation         (5)

(1) This degree is awarded to those who have made 3 crossings, including
    a traverse in both directions and who have attended 2 Wakes.
(2) Awarded to Masters who have made 4 more crossings, one in Winter and
    one alone and unsupported.  Doctors of Dolefulness must have attended
    4 Wakes and presented a Thesis at one of these.
(3) Awarded to those who have made at least 15 crossings and done great
    service to the Club.  They should be able to find their way across
    any moor, by day or night, sober or drunk, and without map or compass.
    My source is too out-of-date (thankfully) to comment on GPS.
(4) Women members.  It all started before the days of PC. [However, I think
    this was an honorary position for women who came along for the beer:
    if they do the walk enough they *are* allowed upwards progression
    and there are two women amongst the first 10 Past Masters (Mistresses)]
(5) Those who have made a single succesful crossing.

[PS This is not a wind-up: at least not by me].
 
Incidentally, the official route is officially only unofficial.
The route normally used has evolved over time so that many now think
this is planned and prescribed, but the definition is strictly as follows
(abridged):

 Start from .. 459997 .. and finish at Ravenscar (classically at
 Hotel bar, but village sign will be accepted).

 Route must cross Stokesley-Helmsley road between..Clay Bank Top and Orterley
 Lane End.. the Whitby Pickering road between Point 945*..and Point 701*..
 the Whitby-Scarborough road betwen Point 538* and Point 579*.

 Route must stick to the tops as far as possible.

*These are triangulation station numbers, the full text giving further
 clarification.

Source and for further info:
  Bill Cowley: Lyke Wake Walk, Dalesman
if still available.

[I regret that I do not qualify for membership.  A veil shall be drawn
 over my only attempted crossing, which at best may be described as a
 fiasco of organisation]

-- 
Michael Farthing
cyclades
software house





Subject: Re: Heather Terrace, Tryfan
From: Paul Saunders (pvs@breathemail.net)

Trevor Dennis <trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:q9P6wOAh31l3Ew6I@tdennis.demon.co.uk...

> Perhaps ironically, it's forests that test my navigation
> skills. I hate the bloody things.

A few nights ago, just for a bit of fun, I plotted a route through a
forest, left my map and compass in the tent, and went wandering in the
black of night with only my GPS to guide me.  It was an interesting
experience, apparently I was even walking backwards at one point!

In spite of the GPS's recommendations I stayed on the paths and always
knew roughly where I was.  I think the key factor is not to take the
GPS literally but to interpret the data in the way that only a human
brain can.  I'm sure the trees must have interfered with the satellite
locks.  Incidentally, my maximum walking speed was 9mph!

Paul






Subject: Re: new website - health and fitness
From: john wood (redcap@globalnet.co.uk)

Richard should appreciate that no one lives for ever. What can remain is
one's efforts - he could apply his writing talents to betterment of those
who follow. Is Chaucer "dead"? Ditto Frank Whittle, Newton etc etc
john wood

Dicky <corbettr@dircon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:379a415f@newsread3.dircon.co.uk...
>
> Kathryn Anne Wald <prevention_now@tesco.net> wrote in message
> news:7nclpo$kho$1@barcode.tesco.net...
>
> > It's time to take living seriously!
>
> No matter how seriously one takes the actual act of living, speaking for
> myself I would take the act of dying even more seriously.
>
> The question is "How do I ensure that I can live forever"
>
> All suggestions on a postcard please.....
>
> Richard Corbett
>
>
>
>






Subject: Re: Don't You Just Hate...
From: Gordon Harris (gordon1@g3snx.demon.co.uk)

In article <uZBevRApjum3EwQI@tdennis.demon.co.uk>, Trevor Dennis
<trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk> writes
>Keith Jones said
>
>>it when you're on a nice quiet walk in the north Wales Carneddau (on Foel
>>Grach to be exact)
>>and the peace and tranquility is shattered by:
>>i microlites; ii pleasure trip planes iii ditto helicopters.
>
>>Any other pet hates when walking the hills
>
>I watched a couple of parasenders(?) south of the Glyders
>recently, and thoroughly enjoyed the experience. 
>
>Brightly coloured, perfectly silent... Much easier on the 
>knees as well.
>
Couple of years ago we were walking on Shining Tor in Derbyshire when
the sky filled with parascenders, more than 30 of them, all colours.
We sat and watched for quite a while, as did other walkers.
It was a brilliant spectacle and I didn't have my camcorder.  :-(

Chatting to one of them who landed nearby we found out it was the
national Championships.
-- 
Gordon1




Subject: Re: Don't You Just Hate...
From:  (walkbritain@home.com)

People tend to talk louder on the phone than in normal onversation so
they are more audible to others near them.  Some restaurants in New York
are banning the use of cell phones for this reason.
Katherine

Mark Wilden wrote:
> 
> Peter Russell <prlf@globalnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:7ndf0k$n0i$1@gxsn.com...
> > People who walk and talk into bits of plastic attached to their ears!
> 
> I've never understood this, myself. Why is that more annoying than people
> who walk and talk to other people? Is it because one can't eavesdrop on both
> halves of the conversation? :)
> 
> Anyway, it doesn't bother me. Even if it did, it wouldn't matter, since as a
> fairly fast walker I'd be past them in a moment.




Subject: Re: Don't You Just Hate...
From: Nick Croome (newsagent@nospamcroome.clara.net)

On Sun, 25 Jul 1999 06:28:51 +0100, Martin Richardson
<martinr@thequiff.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>snip
>
>>v)  Airforce Jet at Supersonic speed that whizzes past at some low 
>>    altitude above your head.
>>
>I will these to crash and die. Unfortunately, thus far I've not been
>successful.
>
>snip

This is also my absolute all time pet hate.  Being seriously deaf I
live in a world of semi silence and find noise, such as a low flying
military jet, very very intrusive.

I have long cherished the idea of forming a National Park Defence
Brigand.  The vehicles would be disguised as ice cream vans (complete
with ice cream), uniform would be a white coat and peaked cap, but the
ice cream cornet on the roof would be a surface to air missile!  :-)

It would certainly add a bit of realism to the RAF training ... but I
suppose they do have to train somewhere.
--
Nick  (No NoSpam to e-mail)




Subject: Re: Don't You Just Hate...
From: Paul Upham (paul.upham@btinternet.com)


>i microlites; ii pleasure trip planes iii ditto helicopters.
>Any other pet hates when walking the hills
>
Personally, I will never complain at the sight/sound of a helicopter. One
day, I may just be the poor sod one of them saves!

Paul






Subject: Re: Welsh pronunciation
From: The Ferret (ferret@chateauferret.demon.co.uk)

On Wed, 21 Jul 1999 19:25:41 GMT, user@crux.u-net.com (Richard Webb)
wrote:

>I am tired of being told 'you have been up truffle again' etc from
>folk in the club.

	You could always do A'Bhuidheanach Bheag or Braigh Choire
Chruinn-bhalgain and see whether they can get their tounges round that
little lot :-)

==========                                             Martin Bucknall
The Ferret                                          Stirling, Scotland
==========                            ferret@chateauferret.demon.co.uk
             * Si tacuisses, professus mansisses *




Subject: Re: Don't You Just Hate...
From: Trevor Dennis (trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk)

Keith Jones said

>it when you're on a nice quiet walk in the north Wales Carneddau (on Foel
>Grach to be exact)
>and the peace and tranquility is shattered by:
>i microlites; ii pleasure trip planes iii ditto helicopters.

>Any other pet hates when walking the hills

I watched a couple of parasenders(?) south of the Glyders
recently, and thoroughly enjoyed the experience. 

Brightly coloured, perfectly silent... Much easier on the 
knees as well.

The next day I watched cloud spill over the knife edged
ridge we were on, and tumble, erratically, down the lee
cliff. It made me think folks who take to the air in the
mountains, are possibly braver than those who climb up 
the side of them.

-- 
Trevor Dennis                          trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk
G6HVK                                           tdennis3@ford.com
   I'm just clever enough to realize how little I really know




Subject: Re: Heather Terrace, Tryfan
From: Trevor Dennis (trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk)

Dave Cox said

>I usually scan them map, print it & draw my walk first

OziExplorer lets you print any GPS waypoints on the 
map, so if you do need to resort to the GPS, you 
can easily get a distance and bearing to any one
of them.

-- 
Trevor Dennis                          trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk
G6HVK                                           tdennis3@ford.com
   I'm just clever enough to realize how little I really know




Subject: Re: Heather Terrace, Tryfan
From: Trevor Dennis (trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk)

Kevin Clinton said
>Trevor Dennis wrote...

>>There is a rather obvious landmark at the start of the
>>terrace - least ways there was two weeks ago - in the
>>form of a small hut (667 599).

>Anybody know what it's for?

Mountain rescue? 
Plas y Brein? (They seem to be responsible for about 
half the people on the mountain at any one time).

-- 
Trevor Dennis                          trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk
G6HVK                                           tdennis3@ford.com
   I'm just clever enough to realize how little I really know




Subject: 2 Day hike Breton Beacons
From: John Fursman (fursman@globalnet.co.uk)

I want to do a weekend circular hike in this area, stopping overnight in a
warm friendly pub. Does anyone have any suggestions?

John






Subject: Re: Don't You Just Hate...
From: Trevor Dennis (trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk)

Michael Connell said

>2.    Might make work for the rescue - they were going uncomfortably close
>to take a look at some climbers.

Could they have been filming?

-- 
Trevor Dennis                          trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk
G6HVK                                           tdennis3@ford.com
   I'm just clever enough to realize how little I really know




Subject: Re: Don't You Just Hate...
From: Richard Webb (user@crux.u-net.com)

On Sun, 25 Jul 1999 05:17:00 +0100, Pedt Scragg
<newsmaster@pedt.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>iv) When passing a walking group of 40 or so and all of them insist on 
>    saying "Good Morning" or equivalent.

Dont go to Slovenia then....

Richard Webb
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dober Dan






Subject: Re: Don't You Just Hate...
From: Richard Webb (user@crux.u-net.com)

On Sun, 25 Jul 1999 00:48:11 +0100, Joseph Finlay
<joseph@jfinl.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>In article <7ndc5a$9qt$1@nclient15-gui.server.virgin.net>, Keith Jones
><keithr.jones69@virgin.net> writes
>>it when you're on a nice quiet walk in the north Wales Carneddau (on Foel
>>Grach to be exact)
>>and the peace and tranquility is shattered by:
>>i microlites; ii pleasure trip planes iii ditto helicopters.
>>Any other pet hates when walking the hills

1) Bracken

2) petty NO-tices

3) Lines of cairns <duck!>


Richard Webb




Subject: Re: new website - health and fitness
From: Peter Russell (prlf@globalnet.co.uk)


>
> The question is "How do I ensure that I can live forever"
>
> All suggestions on a postcard please.....
>
> Richard Corbett
>

(Given that one is not of a religious persuasion)

You can only live on in the memories of those still alive.

So, do something worth them remembering you for.






Subject: Re: Don't You Just Hate...
From: Paul Upham (paul.upham@btinternet.com)

>This is also my absolute all time pet hate.  Being seriously deaf I
>live in a world of semi silence and find noise, such as a low flying
>military jet, very very intrusive.
>

>It would certainly add a bit of realism to the RAF training ... but I
>suppose they do have to train somewhere.
>--


Personally, I enjoy seeing the fast jets zooming across, especially if I am
looking DOWN onto them as they fly through a valley. The noise is rather
loud for a few seconds, but soon passes.

I suppose I am a bit biased as I used to go on some of those flights and the
feeling in the cockpit is absolutely superb.

As you say, the RAF has to train and there is nothing like the real thing -
simulators are only good for certain aspects. You never know when the RAF
needs to fly at ground level for real, like at present out in Kosovo and
other places where we are actively engaged in peace-keeping duties.

As for your missile disguised as an ice cream van - it would add that bit of
realism! However, the RAF have managed that quite well themselves - I think
it was in the late 70s or maybe early 80s that a Phantom accidentally fired
a missile at a Jaguar and shot it down over Germany!

Paul






Subject: Re: Yorkshire Dales 2000feet plus peaks
From: si (si@sicliff.freeserve.co.uk)

Thanks to everyone who has responded to my initial request!
I know  hove lots of walks to plan and enjoy.
-- 
si
Homepage http://www.bigfoot.com/~simon_cliff
ICQ 670505




Subject: Re: Don't You Just Hate...
From: belgrave (lomax@globalnet.co.uk)

Mountain bikers !!

Keith Jones <keithr.jones69@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:7ndc5a$9qt$1@nclient15-gui.server.virgin.net...
>it when you're on a nice quiet walk in the north Wales Carneddau (on Foel
>Grach to be exact)
>and the peace and tranquility is shattered by:
>i microlites; ii pleasure trip planes iii ditto helicopters.
>Any other pet hates when walking the hills
>
>






Subject: Re: Blisters
From:  (simon.says@cwcom.net)

I recommend popping them
>and making sure that they are fully drained and then putting on a "Compeed".

Or better still, put the compeed on BEFORE you go walking, works a treat.

Cheers,

       Simon





Subject: Re: Pembrokeshire Coast Path: How much ascent?
From: Paul Richardson (paulrichardson@milkwood.cix.co.uk)

Brian Cowling wrote:

> Brian John states that if you walk the whole route you will climb 
> over
> 30,000 feet (9,150 metres) in the process.

TVM, Brian; also Ralf (Rbscher@aol.com) who told me the same thing via 
email.


--
Paul Richardson
paulrichardson@milkwood.cix.co.uk




Subject: Re: Don't You Just Hate...
From: Jhimmy (tarill@nayspamfreeuk.com)

I tell you what my pet hate is.....

Having all the right mountain equipment, maps and boots and finding someone
on top of a mountain wearing flip-flops and tee shirt without food/water and
map or compass asking me where so-and-so is.

One day I'll direct them over Scarfell crags!

Jhimmy.






Subject: Re: Don't You Just Hate...
From: Martin Richardson (martinr@thequiff.demon.co.uk)

In article <0lyt7DAIL0m3EwxD@g3snx.demon.co.uk>, Gordon Harris
<Gordon1@g3snx.demon.co.uk> writes
>>
>Couple of years ago we were walking on Shining Tor in Derbyshire when
>the sky filled with parascenders, more than 30 of them, all colours.
>We sat and watched for quite a while, as did other walkers.
>It was a brilliant spectacle and I didn't have my camcorder.  :-(
>

What I don't understand is paragliding. They hover around in bunches
like those insects you get in the back garden near the hedge in the
summer evening. They don't go anywhere and they don't do anything but
hover. Even if they did it in places with the best views (and generally
they don't seem to) it must get terminally boring after a while.
Welcome to the (~uiff Woodsave  

Martin Richardson               martinr@thequiff.demon.co.uk







Subject: Re: Lyke Wake Walk
From: Roger Chapman (r.chapman@zetnet.co.uk)

The message <932894443snz@cyclades.demon.co.uk>
  from  mf@cyclades.demon.co.uk (Michael Farthing) contains these words: 

> (4) Women members.  It all started before the days of PC. [However, I 
> think this was an honorary position for women who came along for the 
> beer: if they do the walk enough they *are* allowed upwards progression
>  and there are two women amongst the first 10 Past Masters (Mistresses)]

Not my understanding. There are (or were) no honorary members. 
Everyone but everyone had to pass the ordeal. Witches are female Dirgers.

> (5) Those who have made a single succesful crossing.

Those who have made at least one crossing but have not qualified for 
the next level. I am still a lowly Dirger because although I have 
made 3 crossings I have not done an East to West Crossing or attended 2 Wakes.

Bill Cowley died a few years ago and I don't know whether the Lyke 
Wake Club survived his passing.

Roger







Subject: Re: new website - health and fitness
From: Roger Chapman (r.chapman@zetnet.co.uk)

The message <379a415f@newsread3.dircon.co.uk>
  from  "Dicky" <corbettr@dircon.co.uk> contains these words: 

> The question is "How do I ensure that I can live forever"

Concentrate on the most boring activities you can possibly find. This 
will have 2 results. The first is that you will think you are living 
for ever and the second is that you will no longer want to. If that 
fails try visiting old peoples homes on a regular basis to see how 
all too many of those who have managed to exceed their natural span 
live out their final years.

Roger






Subject: Re: Hollins Farm Campsite, Boot, Lake District
From: Paul Heywood (paulh@cavern.airtime.co.uk)



>
>Has anybody stayed at this camp site, if so what are the facilities
>like and would you recommend it? Also, please could you recommend some
>good walks in this area as I have not been to this part of the Lakes
>before.
>


I've stayed there several times. Facilites are good but a little limited if
the campsite is fullish. Theres only 3 showers, two gents loo's etc. Having
said that, I like it there. A nice quiet site.

As for walking its all depends what you want to do. Theres any of the
Scafell range from either the Burnmoor end  or walk up the Eskdale Valley. A
little less energetic is the Illgill Head/ Whin Rigg ridge with nice views
down to Wastwater.  Or if you want an offish day you can always get the
train down to Ravenglass and walk back along Muncaster Fell

paul.h







Subject: Mullardoch (was : Campsite recommendations near Cannich)
From: Jim Willsher (jim@willsher.sol.co.uk)

FAO Graham Ingram, and others.

Graham,

Had a failed attempt at the Mullardoch hills at the weekend. Stayed at
the Cannich campsite as suggested by yourself, and it proved to be
adequate for our purposes. We didn't arrive until late, so were glad
to get pitched without any difficulty.

Went to the loch on Saturday morning for an 07:30 meet-up with the
boat. However, as it was low cloud and blowing approx. 40 mph winds
the boat didn't run  -and nor did we have the inclination anyway!!!

Instead we climbed Tom a' Choinich and Toll Creagach in Glen Affric.
Our two tops were clear, but the Mullardoch hills were totally
immersed in cloud. It was too windy to stand up at the tom of Tom, so
we were quite glad we hadn't taken the boat trip.

Many thanks for all your information, it was very useful and will be
retained for a (hopefully) successful return visit later in the year.



Jim


Jim Willsher (jim@willsher.sol.co.uk)

Homepages at http://www.sol.co.uk/w/willsher




Subject: Re: Bamford Edge Peak District
From: Eddie Blake (ed@edblake.demon.co.uk)

In article <7nfe5g$14e0$1@quince.news.easynet.net>, robert hampson
<hampson@unisonfree.net> writes
>Does anyone know of a way up onto this edge?
>From the village it looks quite interesting but there aren't any paths
>marked on the Outdoor Leisure map.  I have seen a photograph published on
>the front of "Peak and Pennine magazine showing a walker standing on the
>edge but there wasn't an article about access.

On the main road through the village there is a big pub, whose name I
have forgotten because it keeps changing, with your back to the pub keep
walking forward, go across a bridge over a stream and you will come to a
steep lane that leads to a path that zig zags  up to the "edge." If you
can't find the path ask anyone who looks like a local :-)

regards,

Eddie
>
>

-- 





Subject: Re: 2 Day hike Breton Beacons
From: Adrian Marsh Tupper (adrian.tupper@zetnet.co.uk)

The message <7nfm5v$evp$1@gxsn.com>
  from  "John Fursman" <fursman@globalnet.co.uk> contains these words: 


> I want to do a weekend circular hike in this area, stopping overnight in a
> warm friendly pub. Does anyone have any suggestions?

> John

I assume it's a typo, John.  What a wonderful idea - especially if 
you enjoy cider.  However...

...Brittany is not particularly high nor is any of its peaks 
spectacular.  Their favourite (but not highest) is Menez Hom (330m) 
but one can drive to the top!

-- 
Adrian Tupper, Edinburgh
adrian.tupper@zetnet.co.uk
McClassify's Munro Bagging on the Web
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/adriantupper/mindex.htm





Subject: Re: Don't You Just Hate...
From: Martin Richardson (martinr@thequiff.demon.co.uk)

>What I don't understand is paragliding... it must get terminally boring
after a while.

Someone has E mailed me to tell me I mean hang-gliding. Well there you
go it's so dull I couldn't be even bothered to get the name right. Bit
like not knowing the name of the insect that they resemble.

Welcome to the (~uiff Woodsave  

Martin Richardson               martinr@thequiff.demon.co.uk







Subject: Re: Heather Terrace, Tryfan
From: Carol & Mike Reid (m0052v00@mcmail.com)

Dave Cox wrote:
> 
> If anyone trusts GPS to the foot, they deserve to go over the edge of a
> cliff!!
> 
> --
> 
> Coxie, the Scouse Manc
> Remove nospam from my address to reply
> ICQ 21559285
> dacox@cableinet.nospamco.uk
> 
> Phil Brady wrote in message
> <01bed45d$e1d48180$2d018f93@is20.bangor.ac.uk>...
> >Dave Cox <cox@cableinetnospam.co.uk> wrote in article
> >> GPS?
> >>
> >> Phil Brady wrote in message
> >> <01bed2b1$79cbdb40$2d018f93@is20.bangor.ac.uk>...
> >> >We were totally lost on the side of Tryfan on Friday trying to find
> >Heather
> >> >Terrace from the A5 end.  We climbed too high initially then found the
> >> >terrace when we were forced to retreat down a nasty gulley.  The locals
> >> >(two familiies of wild goats) were not very helpful, so can any member
> >of
> >> >this group give good pointers for finding it next time?
> >> >Regards
> >
> >Dave,
> >  I love those road runner cartoons where the poor bird finds itself
> >falling hundreds of feet to the ground because of a tiny error in
> >horizontal position.  GPS on Tryfan is very much like that!
> >
> >Phil
> >
> >
Here, here! They are great for the Kalahari desert but no for detailed
routefinding.
-- 
Regards
Mike Reid
Hill shareware quiz & books at  "http://www.fellwalker.mcmail.com"




Subject: Re: Walking in Eskdale
From: Carol & Mike Reid (m0052v00@mcmail.com)

robert.adam.smith wrote:
> 
> Any good info welcome
> 
> --
> Rastus
Can I suggest (from the chuch at the end of the corpse trail from
Wasdale at Boot) follow the Esk upstream to climb Harter Fell then over
the attractive rocky top and down to the road at Hard Knott pass then
over Hard Knott and back along Eskdale on the path to the south of the
road via the Woolpack Inn.
-- 
Regards
Mike Reid
Hill shareware quiz & books at  "http://www.fellwalker.mcmail.com"




Subject: Re: Don't You Just Hate...motorbikes
From: Carol & Mike Reid (m0052v00@mcmail.com)

belgrave wrote:
> 
> Mountain bikers !!

Nobody has so far mentioned the mountain MOTOR biker, all this long list
of hates must dim into insignificance compared to a powered bike
shattering the silence for about 10 miles (and for a long time),
churning up the ground and even possibly running somebody down -
fortunatly it seems to be in decline recently?






-- 
Regards
Mike Reid
Hill shareware quiz & books at  "http://www.fellwalker.mcmail.com"




Subject: Re: Lyke Wake Walk
From: Michael Farthing (mf@cyclades.demon.co.uk)

In article <1999072521414868959@zetnet.co.uk>
           r.chapman@zetnet.co.uk "Roger Chapman" writes:

> The message <932894443snz@cyclades.demon.co.uk>
>   from  mf@cyclades.demon.co.uk (Michael Farthing) contains these words: 
> 
> > (4) Women members.  It all started before the days of PC. [However, I 
> > think this was an honorary position for women who came along for the 
> > beer: if they do the walk enough they *are* allowed upwards progression
> >  and there are two women amongst the first 10 Past Masters (Mistresses)]
> 
> Not my understanding. There are (or were) no honorary members. 
> Everyone but everyone had to pass the ordeal. Witches are female Dirgers.

I stand corrected.

-- 
Michael Farthing
cyclades
software house





Subject: Re: Don't You Just Hate...
From: Matti Lamprhey (matti@polka.bikini)

Martin Richardson <martinr@thequiff.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:YHh$uBAlI9m3EwGN@thequiff.demon.co.uk...
> >What I don't understand is paragliding... it must get terminally boring
> after a while.
>
> Someone has E mailed me to tell me I mean hang-gliding. Well there you
> go it's so dull I couldn't be even bothered to get the name right. Bit
> like not knowing the name of the insect that they resemble.

Actually I think you meant parascending, which is hang-gliding for couch
potatoes.

Matti






Subject: Re: military jumpers
From: Michael Farthing (mf@cyclades.demon.co.uk)

In article <7ncde3$o48$1@uranium.btinternet.com>
           paul.upham@btinternet.com "Paul Upham" writes:

> It not really very ssurprising when you think about it. What is the role of
> the Army for example?  In time of conflict or peacekeeping, as we are
> presently doing in Kosovo,

Solitudinem faciunt pacem appellant (Tacitus)

-- 
Michael Farthing
cyclades
software house





Subject: Re: Walking clubs in Derby
From: Chris Gilbert (chris.gilbert@ffs.nottingham.ac.uk)

Charlie Wildgoose wrote:

>Which Group does your Uncle-in-law walk with Chris ?

Not sure. He lives in Long Eaton so it's probably either Derby or S Derbys. 
I'll have an ask but from what you have said my claim regarding the activeness 
of the local RA groups appears to be accurate.

Chris

--
Email address spam-trapped. Please
remove FFS. if responding privately




Subject: Re: military jumpers
From: Callum Sword (callum_sword@owl.co.uk)

Dr Aidan Rankin wrote:

> Andrew Nichols <Andy@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
> <+38HMGAQ+Wm3EwxF@solicit.demon.co.uk>...
> > In article <01bed52e$63be9980$LocalHost@default>, Dr Aidan Rankin
> > <aidanr@dircon.co.uk> writes
> > >I am a collector of the military-style 'woolly pully' jumpers
> > You are one sad creature:-)
> > --
> > Andrew Nichols
> >                 NB spamtrap
>
> and you are rude suburban prat.  If you have nothing worthwhile to say, say
> nowt.
> >

That's a bit strong - he might object to being called "suburban" !






Subject: Re: military jumpers
From: Dr Aidan Rankin (aidanr@dircon.co.uk)



Callum Sword <Callum_Sword@owl.co.uk> wrote in article
<379C22D8.375AFF14@owl.co.uk>...
> Dr Aidan Rankin wrote:
> 
>
> >
> > and you are rude suburban prat.  If you have nothing worthwhile to say,
say
> > nowt.
> > >
> 
> That's a bit strong - he might object to being called "suburban" !
> 
Some of these people probably take it as a compliment.  People who use
words like 'sad' and 'cool' are beneath contempt.  The chap is probably a
New Labourite. 





Subject: Beinn Dearg (Inverlael) - high camp ?
From: John Philip (jphilip@laurencekirk.u-net.com)

I am planning to do the Beinn Dearg group later this week and wanted to know
what the terrain is like on the Beinn Dearg-Cona Mheall- Meall nan
Ceapraichean col for pitching a tent - one of the books refers to it as a
stoney wilderness.

Thanks

John







Subject: Re: A wee sassinachie speaks his wee mindey....the noo!
From: Graham Benny (cnbs96@cc.sun.strath.ac.uk)

Stuart Baldwin wrote:
> 
> "Dicky" <corbettr@dircon.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> >I am currently in the middle of a most enjoyable book by one Roland
> >Turnbull - yes, yes, I know he writes in "The Bible" I.a TGO Magazine.
> >
> If TGO's The Bible, what does that make TAC?
> 
GOD?

> (Assuming it's still going -  I've not purchased it for a couple of
> months.)
Yup, there's a new issue in the shops right now - came out about 10 days
ago. Still 50p and as hard hitting as ever.

HTH
Graham
-- 
Anti-Spam e-mail address modification in operation!
Extra '.' included - leave you to work out which one to remove.




Subject: Re: Don't You Just Hate...
From: Callum Sword (callum_sword@owl.co.uk)

Jhimmy wrote:

> I tell you what my pet hate is.....
>
> Having all the right mountain equipment, maps and boots and finding someone
> on top of a mountain wearing flip-flops and tee shirt without food/water and
> map or compass asking me where so-and-so is.
>
> One day I'll direct them over Scarfell crags!
>
> Jhimmy.

I was once asked, on the top of Ben Alder, by someone who seemed to be the
land-owner (or a  friend or relation) "I say, I don't suppose either of you has
a map, do you?". He seemed to be there with a couple of pals, and was looking
for the safe way down. Made me feel a bit silly with ice axe and all the stuff -
but gave us something to laugh about later...






Subject: Re: Don't You Just Hate...
From: Callum Sword (callum_sword@owl.co.uk)

belgrave wrote:

> Mountain bikers !!
>
> Keith Jones <keithr.jones69@virgin.net> wrote in message
> news:7ndc5a$9qt$1@nclient15-gui.server.virgin.net...
> >it when you're on a nice quiet walk in the north Wales Carneddau (on Foel
> >Grach to be exact)
> >and the peace and tranquility is shattered by:
> >i microlites; ii pleasure trip planes iii ditto helicopters.
> >Any other pet hates when walking the hills
> >
> >

Got him!






Subject: Dolomites
From: Liam Campbell (liam.campbell@met.ie)


We plan to spend a treking / scrambling holiday in the Dolomites in late 
August/early September. We're not into serious rcck-climbing, but we should be 
able to manage the Alta Via and some Via Ferrata. 

Can anyone recommend a good valley base - i.e. one from where a variety of 
scramples/peaks can be easily reached? We won't have a car...





Subject: Re: Beinn Dearg (Inverlael) - high camp ?
From: Graham Benny (cnbs96@cc.sun.strath.ac.uk)

John Philip wrote:
> 
> I am planning to do the Beinn Dearg group later this week and wanted to know
> what the terrain is like on the Beinn Dearg-Cona Mheall- Meall nan
> Ceapraichean col for pitching a tent - one of the books refers to it as a
> stoney wilderness.
> 
IIRC it is pretty stony there but there are good looking campsites about
half a mile down Glen Squaib and probably only about 300 ft below the
col. There is plenty of water and I would suspect it will be more
shelterd than the col (although this might make it more susceptible to
midge attack!)

HTH
Graham
-- 
Anti-Spam e-mail address modification in operation!
Extra '.' included - leave you to work out which one to remove.




Subject: Re: Don't You Just Hate...
From: Russell Pinder (russell@stephenrussell.prestel.co.uk)

AFAIK
Paragliding is jumping off the side of hills suspended under a paraglider
which looks like a parachute.
Hang Gliding is jumping off the side of hills under a hang glider which
looks like a big kite - a big delta wing made of material on metal spars
Parascending is being towed into the air from a flat bit of ground whilst
suspended under a paraglider which looks like a parachute. (Tow usually by
winch or land rover)

HTH
Russ


Matti Lamprhey <matti@polka.bikini> wrote in message
news:379c11e9.0@news.netdirect.net.uk...
> Martin Richardson <martinr@thequiff.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:YHh$uBAlI9m3EwGN@thequiff.demon.co.uk...
> > >What I don't understand is paragliding... it must get terminally boring
> > after a while.
> >
> > Someone has E mailed me to tell me I mean hang-gliding. Well there you
> > go it's so dull I couldn't be even bothered to get the name right. Bit
> > like not knowing the name of the insect that they resemble.
>
> Actually I think you meant parascending, which is hang-gliding for couch
> potatoes.
>
> Matti
>
>






Subject: Re: Don't You Just Hate...
From: Simon Caldwell (simonatgetrealsystemsdotcom)

Fair enough for RAF helicopters, but you're most unlikely to be saved by a
sight-seeing helicopter.  They were out in force in Snowdonia at the w/e.

S.

Paul Upham wrote in message <7nf2pa$d41$1@neptunium.btinternet.com>...
>
>>i microlites; ii pleasure trip planes iii ditto helicopters.
>>Any other pet hates when walking the hills
>>
>Personally, I will never complain at the sight/sound of a helicopter. One
>day, I may just be the poor sod one of them saves!
>
>Paul
>
>






Subject: Re: Don't You Just Hate...
From: john wood (redcap@globalnet.co.uk)

Just imagine how much more of this will be - outside right to roam
Scotland - when that nice Mr Blair has thrown everywhere open to everyone!
John Wood
Callum Sword <Callum_Sword@owl.co.uk> wrote in message
news:379C277E.C9DA8BF1@owl.co.uk...
> Jhimmy wrote:
>
> > I tell you what my pet hate is.....
> >
> > Having all the right mountain equipment, maps and boots and finding
someone
> > on top of a mountain wearing flip-flops and tee shirt without food/water
and
> > map or compass asking me where so-and-so is.
> >
> > One day I'll direct them over Scarfell crags!
> >
> > Jhimmy.
>
> I was once asked, on the top of Ben Alder, by someone who seemed to be the
> land-owner (or a  friend or relation) "I say, I don't suppose either of
you has
> a map, do you?". He seemed to be there with a couple of pals, and was
looking
> for the safe way down. Made me feel a bit silly with ice axe and all the
stuff -
> but gave us something to laugh about later...
>
>






Subject: TNF Sale?
From: Lisa Duffy (lisad@holyrood.ed.ac.uk)

Does anyone now when this years North Face factory (Port Glasgow) sale is
on?
Thanks
Lisa







Subject: Re: Beinn Dearg (Inverlael) - high camp ?
From: daan (dkieze@scri.sari.ac.uk)

I think the area is mainly very boggy, I remember seeing at tent pitched near a
small lochan north of Meall nan Clach Gealla (if thats the correct name) in the
munro book its the one that translates hill or web of the white stones. I 'll
have alook at the map tonight and try to figure out the grid ref.

Daan



>
>







Subject: Siblets wood on ITV 27 and 30 July
From: Nigel Morgan (nigel@rodmell.demon.co.uk)

Please see "Your Shout" concerning Siblet's Wood on ITV Carlton  on
Tuesday 27 July at 12.20pm, repeated 3.19pm, and subsequently repeated
3.19pm on Friday 30 July.

Rights of way are vital!
Nigel

Please visit our website at: http://www.fintco.demon.co.uk/siblets




Subject: Re: Don't You Just Hate...
From: Tim Jones (t.jones@free4all.co.uk)

On Sat, 24 Jul 1999 22:45:41 +0100, "Keith Jones"
<keithr.jones69@virgin.net> wrote:

>it when you're on a nice quiet walk in the north Wales Carneddau (on Foel
>Grach to be exact)
>and the peace and tranquility is shattered by:
>i microlites; ii pleasure trip planes iii ditto helicopters.
>Any other pet hates when walking the hills
>
>
People who believe that they have a god given right to complain about
other hill users, why can't we learn to tolerate other peoples hobbies
instead of winging!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OH.......        and mountain-bikers  :-)



Regards


Tim




Subject: Re: new website - health and fitness
From: Charles Arthur (carthur@independent.sig)

In article <7nenu3$ma2$1@gxsn.com>, "john wood" <redcap@globalnet.co.uk> wrote:

> Richard should appreciate that no one lives for ever. What can remain is
> one's efforts - he could apply his writing talents to betterment of those
> who follow. Is Chaucer "dead"? Ditto Frank Whittle, Newton etc etc
> john wood

As Woody Allen said (says? maybe if you ask him) "I don't want to be
immortal through my works, I want to be immortal through not dying."

   Charles

One wonders why this trio of newsgroups - bodybuilding, walking and
climbing - were chosen. Not even close in the dictionary. Are they each
meant to be mutations of the other? I saw a description last w/e which said
"take the vertical movement out of climbing and what do you have left?
Bodybuilding."

Hmm, this may turn into a heated debate.
-- 
The Independent on the Web: http://www.independent.co.uk
---------------------------------------------------------------------
UK climbing: http://www.ukclimbing.com. Newer, better, all that stuff
                                           
Email with the subject line "sick of spam" for my (free!) advice on
avoiding and autokilling >95% of junk mail.

Some days you're the pigeon, some days you're the statue 




Subject: Re: military jumpers
From: Gordon Harris (gordon1@g3snx.demon.co.uk)

In article <01bed749$096745a0$a23570c2@default>, Dr Aidan Rankin
<aidanr@dircon.co.uk> writes
>
>Callum Sword <Callum_Sword@owl.co.uk> wrote in article
><379C22D8.375AFF14@owl.co.uk>...
>> Dr Aidan Rankin wrote:
>> 
>> > and you are rude suburban prat.  If you have nothing worthwhile to say,
>say
>> > nowt.
>> 
>> That's a bit strong - he might object to being called "suburban" !
>> 
>Some of these people probably take it as a compliment.  People who use
>words like 'sad' and 'cool' are beneath contempt.  The chap is probably a
>New Labourite. 
>
And as I sit here sipping a G&T[1] and trying to stay COOL in this heat
wave it makes me SAD to hear a man of letters using words like 'prat'
and 'nowt'.

Well the sun *is* well and truly over the yardarm old son. Eh? What?

Know what you mean about New Labourites, they're just a bunch of Old
Tories, well beneath contempt.
-- 
Gordon1




Subject: Re: Heather Terrace, Tryfan
From: John Sargeant (johns@cs.man.ac.uk)


In article <7n56vs$ps6$3@news1.cableinet.co.uk>, "Dave Cox" <cox@cableinetnospam.co.uk> writes:
> GPS?
> 
> --
> 

As usual a guidebook would be much more useful. As well as telling you
how to find Heather Terrace, it should tell you that the North Ridge is
nowhere very difficult, so depending on the situation, you have the
option of carrying on up rather than descending. A GPS might help to avoid
the initial mistake, but if you do find yourself in a steep wrongplace, it's
no help at all. 

  John




Subject: Re: Don't You Just Hate...
From: Mal DDD (malddd@aol.comnospam)

>Any other pet hates when walking the hills

All those hundreds of people who decided to copy my brilliant and original idea
of doing Cadair Idris on the day of Princess Diana's funeral 

(which I chose to do because (a) the media coverage was bound to be appalling,
maudlin and sycophantic and (b) everyone in the world but me would be inside
watching it on TV so I'd have the hill to myself.)

Wrong call... It was like Oxford Street on Xmas Eve up there...

There was even a dotty old couple at the summit shack watching the whole thing
on a pocket TV for heaven's sake.

Mal Davies




Subject: Re: Which pathfinder map for Scafell ?
From: John Sargeant (johns@cs.man.ac.uk)


> In article <JNo+4BAxb$k3YwsQ@pedt.demon.co.uk>, Pedt Scragg <newsmaster@pedt.demon.co.uk> writes:
> > 
> > Quite correct. As the Explorer maps are rolled out then the Pathfinder
> > maps are being withdrawn. At the last consultative committee meeting I
> > attended there was a strong indication though that any remaining stock
> > would be passed to bigger distributors so it may well be possible that 
> > a few phone calls may well locate withdrawn pathfinders.
> > 
> > -- 
> > Pedt
> 
> But the Explorers won't cover area already covered by outdoor leasure
> maps, will they? At least that was my understanding.
> 
> Do you know what sort of timetable we can expect reasonable coverage of
> Scotland on? I find 1:50000 too small a scale to navigate properly
> from, and you need stacks of Pathfinders to cover a decent area. 
> 
>   John
> 




Subject: Re: new website - health and fitness
From: Steve Gray (steve@wcompsys.xxxdemon.co.uk)

Charles Arthur <carthur@independent.sig> said...

>"take the vertical movement out of climbing and what do you have left?
>Bodybuilding."

Bollocks. "Drinking" is the correct answer.

-- 
Steve Gray
Remove XXX to email me.




Subject: Re: new website - health and fitness
From: ANT... (ant@thisbit.cs.keele.ac.uk)


Charles Arthur wrote in message ...
...
>One wonders why this trio of newsgroups - bodybuilding, walking and
>climbing - were chosen. Not even close in the dictionary. Are they each
>meant to be mutations of the other?

Is this a game similar to the one on "Have I got News for You"?

How about, bodybuilders are Devils who eat Children, wa*lkers are the
Devil's Children, and climbers aim to play like children, yet crank like
devils?

>I saw a description last w/e which said
>"take the vertical movement out of climbing and what do you have left?
>Bodybuilding."


Except that climbers aim to be strong *without* building up their
bodies.

--
ANT...
         `There is no failure, except in no longer trying.'







Subject: Ivan Waller
From: Graham Beech (sigma.press@zetnet.co.uk)

Later this year we are publishing "THE CONISTON TIGERS: seventy years of
mountain adventure" - essentially, the autobiography of Harry Griffin. In
connection with this, does any kind soul have a copy of the August 1977
CLIMBER & RAMBLER magazine that they can lend to me? I need to scan the
famous picture which appeared in this issue of Ivan Waller on Tryfan,
complete with wind-up gramophone! Naturally, if somebody can scan it for me,
even better! Caledonian Magazines no longer have the original picture and
they are happy for me to do this.

Hoping someone can help.


-- Graham Beech
............................................................................
.
  Lifestyle books from SIGMA PRESS - Walking, Cycling, Dancing and more!
  E-mail: info@sigmapress.co.uk     | Web site: http://www.sigmapress.co.uk
            Tel: +44 (0)1625 531035 |  Fax: +44 (0)1625 536800
    Snail Mail: 1 South Oak Lane, Wilmslow, Cheshire, SK9 6AR, UK
............................................................................
.









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Subject: Re: TNF Sale?
From: Alastair S Ross (mail@"themountains".f9.co.uk)

I was the under the impression that they'd stopped doing sales and opted for
a factory seconds shop in East Kilbride run by Tiso's instead.  But I could
be wrong.

--
Alastair Ross

Visit The Mountaineering and Recreation Information Pages
http://www.themountains.f9.co.uk

Lisa Duffy <lisad@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:379C4556.DD50CE92@holyrood.ed.ac.uk...
> Does anyone now when this years North Face factory (Port Glasgow) sale is
> on?
> Thanks
> Lisa
>
>
>






Subject: Re: Don't You Just Hate...
From: Gordon Harris (gordon1@g3snx.demon.co.uk)

In article <19990726102453.13322.00001890@ng-fr1.aol.com>, Mal DDD
<malddd@aol.comnospam> writes
>>Any other pet hates when walking the hills
>
>All those hundreds of people who decided to copy my brilliant and original idea
>of doing Cadair Idris on the day of Princess Diana's funeral 
>
>(which I chose to do because (a) the media coverage was bound to be appalling,
>maudlin and sycophantic and (b) everyone in the world but me would be inside
>watching it on TV so I'd have the hill to myself.)
>
>Wrong call... It was like Oxford Street on Xmas Eve up there...
>
>There was even a dotty old couple at the summit shack watching the whole thing
>on a pocket TV for heaven's sake.
>
That would be Elizabeth II and Philip the Greek.

(Daren't let anyone see 'em watching).
-- 
Gordon1




Subject: Re: Heather Terrace, Tryfan
From: Gordon Harris (gordon1@g3snx.demon.co.uk)

In article <7nhqcm$o9$1@m1.cs.man.ac.uk>, John Sargeant
<johns@cs.man.ac.uk> writes
>
>In article <7n56vs$ps6$3@news1.cableinet.co.uk>, "Dave Cox" 
><cox@cableinetnospam.co.uk> writes:
>> GPS?
>> 
>As usual a guidebook would be much more useful. As well as telling you
>how to find Heather Terrace, it should tell you that the North Ridge is
>nowhere very difficult, so depending on the situation, you have the
>option of carrying on up rather than descending. A GPS might help to avoid
>the initial mistake, but if you do find yourself in a steep wrongplace, it's
>no help at all. 
>
My friends used Poucher's Welsh Peaks, and had no trouble navigating.
-- 
Gordon1




Subject: Re: military jumpers
From: Dicky (corbettr@dircon.co.uk)

It has been put to me that in Australia they have crossed a sheep with a
kangaroo with the resultant mutation usually being referred to a "a wolly
jumber".

I hope that helps

Richard Corbett

Andrew Nichols <Andy@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:+38HMGAQ+Wm3EwxF@solicit.demon.co.uk...
> In article <01bed52e$63be9980$LocalHost@default>, Dr Aidan Rankin
> <aidanr@dircon.co.uk> writes
> >I am a collector of the military-style 'woolly pully' jumpers
> You are one sad creature:-)
> --
> Andrew Nichols
>                 NB spamtrap






Subject: Re: Which pathfinder map for Scafell ?
From: Pedt Scragg (newsmaster@pedt.demon.co.uk)

John Sargeant <mailto:johns@cs.man.ac.uk> said: 

>> 
>> But the Explorers won't cover area already covered by outdoor leasure
>> maps, will they? At least that was my understanding.

Your understanding is correct.
>> 
>> Do you know what sort of timetable we can expect reasonable coverage of
>> Scotland on? I find 1:50000 too small a scale to navigate properly
>> from, and you need stacks of Pathfinders to cover a decent area. 
>> 
From what I hear I reckon 200x for those areas outside OLM mapping.
<insert own value for x - I'll bet on 2>
-- 
Pedt

Veni; Vidi; Visa ... I came, I saw, I did a little shopping




Subject: Re: campsite N of Whitby
From: Ken Lussey (lussey@arachnid.co.uk-nospam)

In article <01bed59a$6e45ca60$533670c2@default>, Brian Cowling
<bcowling@dircon.co.uk> writes
>> 
>Mick,
>I can recommend:-
>Runswick Bay Caravan & Caravan Camping Park, Hinderwell Lane, Runswick Bay,
>TS13 5HR. 01947 840997. Almost on the Cleveland Way. Showers/toilet. Shop &
>Pub next door.
>Brian
>

It is a good site in an excellent location.  Do you know where they've
got to on repairing the sea wall at Runswick?  After watching it's base
slowly sliding outwards and the top tilting back over the past few
years, we found it all closed off last time we visited.  We heard they'd
started remedial action, but don't know if the sea wall area's reopened.

-- 
Ken Lussey                      
lussey@arachnid.co.uk-nospam
(To reply by e-mail, remove the "-nospam")
http://www.arachnid.co.uk/




Subject: Re: Don't You Just Hate...
From: Rob Nicholson (rob.nicholson@unforgettable.com)

> Any other pet hates when walking the hills

Phantom summits :-)






Subject: Re: Ivan Waller
From: Roger Chapman (r.chapman@zetnet.co.uk)

The message <379c8b18$0$7839@znews.zetnet.co.uk>
  from  "Graham Beech" <sigma.press@zetnet.co.uk> contains these words: 

> Later this year we are publishing "THE CONISTON TIGERS: seventy years of
> mountain adventure" - essentially, the autobiography of Harry Griffin. In
> connection with this, does any kind soul have a copy of the August 1977
> CLIMBER & RAMBLER magazine that they can lend to me? I need to scan the
> famous picture which appeared in this issue of Ivan Waller on Tryfan,
> complete with wind-up gramophone! Naturally, if somebody can scan it for 
> me, even better! Caledonian Magazines no longer have the original 
> picture and they are happy for me to do this.

> Hoping someone can help.

Sorry. I have most copies from the mid sixties to the early 80s and 9 
from 1977 but unfortunately August 77 is not among them.

Roger






Subject: Affric and Mullardoch
From: Tony Kavanagh (kavanagha@tesco.net)

I'm in the process of planning a bacpacking expedition  in this area in late
September

Does anybody know about stalking restriictions at that time and also if
there any problems about wild camping on these estates please?






Subject: Re: Mullardoch (was : Campsite recommendations near Cannich)
From: The Ferret (ferret@chateauferret.demon.co.uk)

On Sun, 25 Jul 1999 20:59:26 GMT, jim@willsher.sol.co.uk (Jim
Willsher) wrote:

>Instead we climbed Tom a' Choinich and Toll Creagach in Glen Affric.
>Our two tops were clear, but the Mullardoch hills were totally
>immersed in cloud. It was too windy to stand up at the tom of Tom, so
>we were quite glad we hadn't taken the boat trip.

	I went up Ben Vane down by Loch Lomond on Saturday; going up the
sheltered side of the mountain was a little bit dreich and drizzly but
when I emerged from behind the last rock onto the summit plateau next
to the cairn it was like being shoved into a washing machine. Didn't
stay there very long :-)

	Funny, that, you usually get *some* warning.

==========                                             Martin Bucknall
The Ferret                                          Stirling, Scotland
==========                            ferret@chateauferret.demon.co.uk
             * Si tacuisses, professus mansisses *




Subject: Wicklow Way
From: Alex Clarke (alexclarke@alexclarke.free-online.co.uk)

Anyone out there know where I can obtain maps and/or guides for the Wicklow
Way in Ireland? Contacts, booksellers etc. either here (UK) or in Ireland
greatly appreciated.

Alex






Subject: Re: Map reading courses - Lincolnshire
From: simon elliott (sce1@cwcom.net)


Dicky <corbettr@dircon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3799d86c@newsread3.dircon.co.uk...
> Allow me to speak frankly dear lady.
> Lincolnshire, as we all know, is so flat that if you look out of your
window
> on Sunday, you will see who is coming to visit you on Wednesday.
> Thus I put it to you that map reading skills are quite unnecessary if you
> live in Lincolnshire.


Whilst walking the Viking way we made a small detour to visit the highest
point in Lincolnshire (About 70m IIRC)
we could see for miles and miles from our lofty elevated position ;-)

Cheers,
            Simon







Subject: Re: Sykes Farm Campsite, Buttermere
From: Phil Britton (phil@paule.demon.co.uk)

mellowmark@my-deja.com writes:

> Sykes Farm Campsite, Buttermere, Lake District.
> 
> Has anybody stayed at this camp site, if so what are the facilities
> like and would you recommend it?


If that's the one at the west side of the Village. It's a good
campsite. Toilets and Showers OK. The terrrain is very up and down so
you can find some very pleasant spots and it's only two mintes wlak to
the pub. If you like sleeping beside running water the back runs
through onde side of the site.

I'd recommend it

cheers

Phil

-- 
Phil Britton
Whitley Bay, UK




Subject: Re: Heather Terrace, Tryfan
From: Stuart Mann (stuart.mann@virgin.net)

If one is comfortable using technological aids, I'd suggest an altimeter is
far more useful in this situation. Not the (very) inaccurate altitude
function on a GPS, but a barometric device such as the Suunto Vector. This
has a precision of 10 feet (although the accuracy, of course, depends on
recent calibration and subsequent atmospheric stability). It consistently
knows the difference between upstairs and downstairs at home, although that
application alone doesn't justify the outlay :-)

I've just been given one to console me on the occasion of a significant
birthday. Whilst I've not used it yet in "real" hills, I'd say from my
experiments locally that in intelligent hands (like anything else) it falls
into the category of a "non-essential, but potentially rather useful tool".
Very usable!

(No techno-wars please, I'm merely passing on a suggestion some may find
useful).

Stuart

Gordon Harris <Gordon1@g3snx.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:poo6YBAnWJn3EwKN@g3snx.demon.co.uk...
> In article <7nhqcm$o9$1@m1.cs.man.ac.uk>, John Sargeant
> <johns@cs.man.ac.uk> writes
> >
> >In article <7n56vs$ps6$3@news1.cableinet.co.uk>, "Dave Cox"
> ><cox@cableinetnospam.co.uk> writes:
> >> GPS?
> >>
> >As usual a guidebook would be much more useful. As well as telling you
> >how to find Heather Terrace, it should tell you that the North Ridge is
> >nowhere very difficult, so depending on the situation, you have the
> >option of carrying on up rather than descending. A GPS might help to
avoid
> >the initial mistake, but if you do find yourself in a steep wrongplace,
it's
> >no help at all.
> >
> My friends used Poucher's Welsh Peaks, and had no trouble navigating.
> --
> Gordon1






Subject: Re: Don't You Just Hate...
From: Rob Nicholson (rob.nicholson@unforgettable.com)

> Mountain bikers !!

Oh dear - we're considering using bikes this weekend to get to the base of
the munro. This is one of the more remote munros that we've missed and don't
fancy a big slog in/out in the summer heat.

Rob.






Subject: Re: new website - health and fitness
From: Mike Blamires (mike@blamires.karoo.co.uk)


> One wonders why this trio of newsgroups - bodybuilding, walking and
> climbing - were chosen. Not even close in the dictionary. Are they each
> meant to be mutations of the other? I saw a description last w/e which
said
> "take the vertical movement out of climbing and what do you have left?
> Bodybuilding."
 Considering Bodybuiding makes practically uselless large muscle and rock
climbing is anaplegic
(?) which makes muscles strong but doesn't build them big, i think

Mike

http://www.karoo.co.uk/blamires
>
> Hmm, this may turn into a heated debate.
> --
> The Independent on the Web: http://www.independent.co.uk
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> UK climbing: http://www.ukclimbing.com. Newer, better, all that stuff
>
> Email with the subject line "sick of spam" for my (free!) advice on
> avoiding and autokilling >95% of junk mail.
>
> Some days you're the pigeon, some days you're the statue






Subject: Re: Blisters
From: Nigel Cliffe (ncliffe@btinternet.xgarbagex.com)

In article <FWJm3.56$zq4.433@news1-hme0.mcmail.com>, simon.says@cwcom.net wrote:

> I recommend popping them
> >and making sure that they are fully drained and then putting on a "Compeed".
> 
> Or better still, put the compeed on BEFORE you go walking, works a treat.
> 

Or not popping them and using Compeed. The Compeed will drain the blister
as if by magic, and not popping reduces the risks of infection.

Seems we all agree on the Compeed, just disagree on how to use it :-)


- Nigel

-- 
Nigel Cliffe, BT Labs, Martlesham.     
 check the reply address for garbage         




Subject: Re: TNF Sale?
From: David Prow (djprow@globalnet.co.uk)


Alastair S Ross <mail@"themountains".f9.co.uk> wrote in message
news:SK0n3.976$lp.21874@stones...
> I was the under the impression that they'd stopped doing sales and opted
for
> a factory seconds shop in East Kilbride run by Tiso's instead.  But I
could
> be wrong.
>
> --
> Alastair Ross

No they still have a sale at the Factory, Twice a year now .
the last was in a May so I would guess the next will be in September
sometime.

David Prow






Subject: Re: Don't You Just Hate...
From: Trevor Dennis (trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk)

belgrave Said

>Mountain bikers !!

Whoa no! They are great entertainment.

I saw one do an excellent forward loop after 
riding into a bog in the Peaks this year.

His mates nearly joined him in a heap on the ground
through laughing so much.

-- 
Trevor Dennis                          trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk
G6HVK                                           tdennis3@ford.com
   I'm just clever enough to realize how little I really know




Subject: Re: Heather Terrace, Tryfan
From: Trevor Dennis (trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk)

Carol & Mike Reid said

>Here, here! They are great for the Kalahari desert but no for detailed
>routefinding.

There seem to be a few misconceptions here regarding GPS 
and its usefulness for a hill-walker.

In its simplest form a GPS can tell you where you are to 
an accuracy of 35-50 feet, (this is achieved by means of 
averaging, and the current accuracy is displayed on the 
unit). This information is supplementary to what you can 
*see* around you - you don't become blind when you hold
a GPS receiver in your hand.

More useful is to program the GPS with 20 to 30 easily
identifiable land marks on your intended route; path
junctions, stiles, change of directions, hazards, escape 
routes... These are picked directly from a scanned map, 
and up-loaded to the GPS - about half an hour including 
scanning the map.

Then, if you do become lost, or the weather closes in,
the GPS can give you a magnetic bearing and distance
to the nearest waypoint, (or any one that suits you).

I am unlucky enough to live in Essex, and nearly every 
climb I do is without the benefit of local knowledge. For 
the sake of 120 quid I get an extra level safety that if 
I only need it once, I will feel it money well spent.

-- 
Trevor Dennis                          trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk
G6HVK                                           tdennis3@ford.com
   I'm just clever enough to realize how little I really know




Subject: Re: military jumpers
From: Dr Aidan Rankin (aidanr@dircon.co.uk)



Dicky <corbettr@dircon.co.uk> wrote in article
<379ca4b8@newsread3.dircon.co.uk>...
> It has been put to me that in Australia they have crossed a sheep with a
> kangaroo with the resultant mutation usually being referred to a "a wolly
> jumber".
> 
> I hope that helps
> 
> Richard Corbett
> 
> 
Doesn't help old chap, but I like it!




Subject: Re: military jumpers
From: Dr Aidan Rankin (aidanr@dircon.co.uk)



>
> >
> And as I sit here sipping a G&T[1] and trying to stay COOL in this heat
> wave it makes me SAD to hear a man of letters using words like 'prat'
> and 'nowt'.

Point taken.  Very good.  No hetwave here in Yorkshire, thank goodness.
> 
>
Know what you mean about New Labourites, they're just a bunch of Old
> Tories, well beneath contempt.

This one I can't accept, Gordon 1.  New Labour is more like Thatcherism in
drag than One Nation Toryism.  Lenin once said that communism = socialism +
electrification.  I can't help thinking that New Labour = Thatcherism +
'Political Correctness'.
Cheers.
Aidan
> -- 
> Gordon1
> 




Subject: Re: Don't You Just Hate...
From:  (oldboots@my-deja.com)

In article <7nfpnl$h1i$1@gxsn.com>,
  "belgrave" <lomax@globalnet.co.uk> wrote:
> Mountain bikers !!
>

WHY?

oldboots


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.




Subject: Re: Don't You Just Hate...
From: Keith Jones (keithr.jones69@virgin.net)


Tim Jones wrote in message <379c59ea.9069490@news.free4all.co.uk>...
>On Sat, 24 Jul 1999 22:45:41 +0100, "Keith Jones"
><keithr.jones69@virgin.net> wrote:
>
>>>>Any other pet hates when walking the hills
>>
>>
>People who believe that they have a god given right to complain about
>other hill users, why can't we learn to tolerate other peoples hobbies
>instead of winging!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>OH.......        and mountain-bikers  :-)
>
>Hill users I've no problems with, it's the hill abusers that get me!!






Subject: Re: Blisters
From: Keith Jones (keithr.jones69@virgin.net)


Thanks to all for advice, but what I don't understand is why my (Zamberlan)
boots should give me blisters after 2 to 3 years of wear?
Can/do leather boots shrink and can they be restretched?
Hwyl!
Keith






Subject: Re: Cairnless Summits
From: Alan Ashton (alan.ashton@tesco.net)


       Alan Ashton, Ty'n-y-Ffridd, Llechwedd,
                  CONWY.  LL32 8LJ
Halfway up Tal-y-Fan, lovely view of Blackpool Tower

Someone has recently built a cairn on Pen yr Helgi Du
(above Cwm Ogwen).  It's a lovely cairn, a bit like a
bee-hive, must have taken a couple of days. I just
wonder Why?

Alan






Subject: Re: Blisters
From: simon elliott (sce1@cwcom.net)


Keith Jones <keithr.jones69@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:7niio8$pnr$1@nclient13-gui.server.virgin.net...
>
> Thanks to all for advice, but what I don't understand is why my
(Zamberlan)
> boots should give me blisters after 2 to 3 years of wear?
> Can/do leather boots shrink and can they be restretched?
> Hwyl!
> Keith
>
 Perhaps its your feet that have changed shape??

Simon






Subject: Re: Affric and Mullardoch
From: Alastair S Ross (mail@"themountains".f9.co.uk)

Visit my site below and look under the Mountaineering section you'll find
information there on general stalking restrictions.

You could also try the book "Heading for the Scottish Hills" which has
information on estates restrictions and it gives contact telephone numbers
for the estates as well.  Unfortunately, I don't have the book myself-
otherwise I would have given you the number to call.

Best wishes,

Alastair Ross

Visit The Mountaineering and Recreation Information Pages for Books and Maps
http://www.themountains.f9.co.uk


Tony Kavanagh <Kavanagha@tesco.net> wrote in message
news:7nidtj$j7j$1@epos.tesco.net...
> I'm in the process of planning a bacpacking expedition  in this area in
late
> September
>
> Does anybody know about stalking restriictions at that time and also if
> there any problems about wild camping on these estates please?
>
>






Subject: new website
From: BurtonBooks (burtonbooks@tesco.net)

Hope you find it informative
john
http://www.oban-org.co.uk/greatwalks






Subject: Re: Mullardoch (was : Campsite recommendations near Cannich)
From: Graham Ingram (graham@terregles.freeserve.co.uk)


Jim Willsher wrote in message <379b7931.952319@news.scotland.net>...
>FAO Graham Ingram, and others.


{Another windy and soggy tale snipped}


Jim
Sorry to hear of your change of plan but at least you appear to have got
some result from the trek North.
At the time of your aborted boat trip Mark and I were heading up the A9 for
Seana Bhraigh when we picked up the Radio Scotland 7 a.m. hillwalking
forecast which indicated that the winds were staying high and the clear
weather was slower in coming in so we made a sharp left at Dalwhinnie and
headed for the West end of Glen Shiel for our fourth attempt on Beinn Fhada
and A'Glas-beinn ( we never left the car park on the first three attempts
due to storms and gale force winds!).   This time we made both summits
albeit in driving rain and very strong wind. The conditions on the Fhada
plateau were just awful with less than 10 mtr visibility and after some
messing about with the compass the GPS had to come out for a spot position.
Ten minutes later we made a quick circuit of the trig as it was too stormy
to sit about ( probably the same time as you were on Tom or Toll). We did
not attempt the direct route to A'Glas-beinn given the conditions so we
retraced our steps to the path and then onto the second Munro over a very
windy summit ridge. It is a pity we did not realise you were just four or
five mountains away or we could have given you a wave as the visibility was
so good ;-)
Heres to the next (dry) day on the hills..... Next Saturday !
Cheers
Graham







Subject: Re: Blisters
From: Nigel Cliffe (ncliffe@btinternet.xgarbagex.com)

In article <7niio8$pnr$1@nclient13-gui.server.virgin.net>, "Keith Jones"
<keithr.jones69@virgin.net> wrote:

> Thanks to all for advice, but what I don't understand is why my (Zamberlan)
> boots should give me blisters after 2 to 3 years of wear?
> Can/do leather boots shrink and can they be restretched?

Don't know why, but yes they can be stretched. You need a good boot shop
who understand boot fitting, can conduct measurements and know how to make
modifications. Such shops are rare in my experience. Braemar Mountain
Sports did a fine job on mine recently.

I wonder if your feet are changing shape, where are the new blisters occuring ?

- Nigel

-- 
Nigel Cliffe, BT Labs, Martlesham.     
 check the reply address for garbage         




Subject: Re: Wicklow Way
From: Simon Stewart (sstewart@indigo.ie)

See commercial links section of Mountaineering Council of Ireland site
below.
Be warned, sections of the Wicklow Way are badly eroded.
-- Simon Stewart

--
---------------------
Simon Stewart :: http://www.simonstewart.ie
also the MCI ::  http://www.mountaineering.ie
Alex Clarke <alexclarke@alexclarke.free-online.co.uk> wrote in message
news:vf3n3.7897$Yl.5423@wards...
> Anyone out there know where I can obtain maps and/or guides for the
Wicklow
> Way in Ireland? Contacts, booksellers etc. either here (UK) or in Ireland
> greatly appreciated.
>
> Alex
>
>






Subject: Re: military jumpers
From: Dr Aidan Rankin (aidanr@dircon.co.uk)



> I do object - urban prat I'll accept. I collect many sadder things
> myself (old primuses?), hence the smiley with my original comment.
> 
> And no, not New Labour. Far too right wing for my sensitive views.
> -- 
All right, you're not suburban!  And I'm delighted to hear you're not New
Labour either.  For me they are too right wing on economics, too left-wing
on social issues!  

Aidan




Subject: Re: new website - health and fitness
From: Steve Gray (steve@wcompsys.xxxdemon.co.uk)

Allan <allan@NOSPAM.legion.net> said...
>
>It is scientifically proven that bodybuilding helps in ALL forms of sport.

Please back up this ridiculous assertion with some evidence.

-- 
Steve Gray
Remove XXX to email me.




Subject: Re: new website - health and fitness
From: The Guv'nor (theredbarron@hotmail.com)

Hi,

See ***



Steve Gray <Steve@wcompsys.XXXdemon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:xv3CKRAWFXn3EwJC@wcompsys.demon.co.uk...
> Allan <allan@NOSPAM.legion.net> said...
> >
> >It is scientifically proven that bodybuilding helps in ALL forms of
sport.
>
> Please back up this ridiculous assertion with some evidence.


*** Giving you some evidence would or could take me ages as their is so much
of it about. I think the problem here is the word "bodybuilding". When Allan
said "BB" he simply meant training with weights.

It has been proven that training with weights in addition to your sport be
it Marathon, Rowing or Sprinting or any sport is beneficial. Obviously the
type of weights one does and the quantity will vary depending on ones sport.
It has been shown that the top marathon runners apart from having
exceptional endurance also possess (compared to the average club runner)
greater muscular endurance and strength which helps them in maintaining
their high output over the 26 miles. This is why some of the top male
marathon runners have quite well defined and muscular arms (relative to
other runners) as the arm action is important in running.

Climbers do benefit from weight training as it can help them develop sport
specific strength away from a rock face or climbing wall. Just because they
train with weights does not mean they will put on weight but they can
improve their muscular endurance and sport specific strength.

I do agree with the point that the heavier you are as a climber the worse
you will be. This is not just a factor of weight but also one of power to
weight ratio and in all these cases the lighter gent will always have the
upper hand. Technically it is possible for a 16st man to have the muscular
endurance and strength of a 9st man but when we reach the limits of mans
abilities as a top climber would be - it becomes nigh on impossible. That's
why the world record for say chin-ups is probably held by a guy under 11st.

Guv'nor

>
> --
> Steve Gray
> Remove XXX to email me.






Subject: Re: Don't You Just Hate...
From: Russell Pinder (russell@stephenrussell.prestel.co.uk)


Martin Richardson <martinr@thequiff.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Zk0P2AB0ZOn3Ewc+@thequiff.demon.co.uk...
> In article <7nh8og$24g$1@phys-ma.sol.co.uk>, Russell Pinder <russell@ste
> phenrussell.prestel.co.uk> writes
> >AFAIK
> >Paragliding is jumping off the side of hills suspended under a paraglider
> >which looks like a parachute.
> >Hang Gliding is jumping off the side of hills under a hang glider which
> >looks like a big kite - a big delta wing made of material on metal spars
> >Parascending is being towed into the air from a flat bit of ground whilst
> >suspended under a paraglider which looks like a parachute. (Tow usually
by
> >winch or land rover)
> >
> Do any of them actually go anywhere or do they all hang around like
> insects who are not sure what to sting?

I think its a bit like hil walking in that you eventually end up either
where you wanted to go or back where you started ! - Some of them do travel
large distances - most just go up and back AFAIK - just like walkers really
! (and mountain bikers!) out to enjoy the hills and open spaces (just
they've a third dimension)

Russ









Subject: Re: new website - health and fitness
From: Allan (allan@nospam.legion.net)


Steve Gray <Steve@wcompsys.XXXdemon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:xv3CKRAWFXn3EwJC@wcompsys.demon.co.uk...
> Allan <allan@NOSPAM.legion.net> said...
> >
> >It is scientifically proven that bodybuilding helps in ALL forms of
sport.
>
> Please back up this ridiculous assertion with some evidence.

First of all it is not a ridiculous assertion. Second finish reading the
mail
and you can go and find your own evidence in any bookstore. I know that
training with weights (and sorry that I used the word bodybuilding, it's
just
that to me body building means exactly that) can actually help in all forms
of life
but regarding assisting in all forms of sport is a very well know fact.

Obviously if you are a die hard climber or walker then quite possibly you
do not know that other forms of sport exist.

Once again, obviously a climber would not want massive muscles as this would
make climbing more difficult but then he would adjust his type of weight
training
for his specific sport. A golfer would not want a large chest as this would
hinder his
swing but I reckon that he would want good forearm and arm strength. A
martial
artist would also not want massive muscles as this could slow him down. A
basket ball
player would want a higher jump and thus would train specific leg exercises.
A soccer
player would also want good legs and possibly specific exercises for knee
protection.

Over to you!

Allan

>
> --
> Steve Gray
> Remove XXX to email me.






Subject: Re: Don't You Just Hate...
From: Gavin Whittaker (ah05@holyrood.ed.ac.uk)

Callum Sword (Callum_Sword@owl.co.uk) wrote:

: I was once asked, on the top of Ben Alder, by someone who seemed to be the
: land-owner (or a  friend or relation) "I say, I don't suppose either of you has
: a map, do you?". He seemed to be there with a couple of pals, and was looking
: for the safe way down. Made me feel a bit silly with ice axe and all the stuff -
: but gave us something to laugh about later...

  I think the obvious reply is something like 'fraid not, but we're just
going to try going down this reeeeeeaaaally steep slope if you want to
come with us.  You okay in flip-flops?'  




Subject: Re: Warranty on boots
From: Michael Farthing (mf@cyclades.demon.co.uk)

In article <7nk24a$a1t$1@nclient13-gui.server.virgin.net>
           andrew.markham@virgin.net "andrew Markham" writes:

> Sounds like to me they are 'not fit for their purpose', they (the
> manufacturer) should take into account of abrasion on the inside of the boot
> from the foot. Most good boots  sandwich the waterproof membrane between two
> other materials so there is no direct contact.

Precisely.

> Have another go at the supplier.

And use those magic little words 'fit for purpose' that have a good solid
technical legal meaning.  Just seeing them written down spelt correctly
may affect the supplier's attitude. 

Incidentally if sold goods not fit for purpose you may be offered a
replacement (free) which you may accept if you wish.  However, you are
also entitled to a full refund.

[Umm. Some pedant will pick up on this.  You're entitled to a replacement
 or a refund at your discretion: not to both!]

-- 
Michael Farthing
cyclades
software house





Subject: Re: new website - health and fitness
From: Gavin Whittaker (ah05@holyrood.ed.ac.uk)

Deano (Deano@jd.co.uk) wrote:
<snip>

: **Dying? An act? Surely not, more a matter of certainty which will
: inevitably prevail.

  A certainty?  The simple fact is that of all the people who have ever
lived, between 20 and 50% of them are alive today, depending on who you
believe.  That gives me pretty good odds of between 20% and 50% of being
immortal.  
  Statistics don't lie, Deano.

	Gavin

*****************************************************************************
Dr. A.G. Whittaker - Dept. of Chemistry, King's buildings, West Mains
		     Rd., Edinburgh.  EH9 3JJ.                               
                     Tel: 0131 6504800.  Fax: 0131 6504743.             
                     email: ah05@holyrood.ed.ac.uk                      
*****************************************************************************






Subject: Re: Warranty on boots
From: Seriously Mountains (seriously.mountains@virgin.net)


andrew Markham
>
>Sounds like to me they are 'not fit for their purpose', they (the
>manufacturer) should take into account of abrasion on the inside of the
boot
>from the foot. Most good boots  sandwich the waterproof membrane between
two
>other materials so there is no direct contact.
>
>I Dont agree with John, I think a 'good' pair of boots should last a lot
>longer
>than 10 months.


Yep !
I have to agree with this.
Play it cool but ultimately you can go to small claims court.
You could also ask for independent opinion from professional body/other
specialist supplier. This is good back up.
Whatever you do, don't be put off with a shop telling you rhubarb, rhubarb,
rhubarb, Boots ain't cheap these days.

Cheers
Steve

http://vzone.virgin.net/stephen.edwards5/index.htm






Subject: Re: TNF Sale?
From: Joe (zzz@zz.net)

They had a sale back in May, and had one of the best ranges I've seen out of
the last four sales. Loads of rucksacks and tents, even on the Saturday
afternoon and on Sunday morning. They usually have two each year, so I would
imagine the next one will be in November again. Once again I managed to spend
the wrong side of three hundred quid!!!

The Tiso store in East Kilbride is in addition to the sales. Their prices are
not quite as competitive as the sale day, but are still very reasonable
UltraWick pullover : 80 in shops, 40 at Tiso East Kilbride, 30 at TNF Sale).

I'm on the mailing list, so should find out about the sale about a fortnight
beforehand.


Jim


----------
"Alastair S Ross" <mail@"themountains".f9.co.uk> wrote...

> I was the under the impression that they'd stopped doing sales and opted for
> a factory seconds shop in East Kilbride run by Tiso's instead.  But I could
> be wrong.
> 
> --
> Alastair Ross
> 
> Visit The Mountaineering and Recreation Information Pages
> http://www.themountains.f9.co.uk
> 
> Lisa Duffy <lisad@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote in message
> news:379C4556.DD50CE92@holyrood.ed.ac.uk...
> > Does anyone now when this years North Face factory (Port Glasgow) sale is
> > on?
> > Thanks
> > Lisa
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 





Subject: Re: Blisters
From: Yogi Bear (yogi@jellystone.com)

Keith Jones wrote in message
<7niio8$pnr$1@nclient13-gui.server.virgin.net>...
>
>Thanks to all for advice, but what I don't understand is why my (Zamberlan)
>boots should give me blisters after 2 to 3 years of wear?
>Can/do leather boots shrink and can they be restretched?
>Hwyl!
>Keith
>
Exactly where are your blisters?  I got a HUGE blister after a low-level
forest walk in my 2-year-old Zamberlans a few years ago.  It was on the
outside of the heel almost at the bottom of the foot.  Turned out it was
caused by compression of the original Zamberlan footbed, which had squashed
almost completely flat in the middle of the heel area, leaving a hard edge
jutting up around the outside.  My foot was getting pinched between this
edge and the inside of the boot, resulting in a blister of megalithic
proportions.  Replacing the worn footbeds with Sorbothane insoles solved the
problem for good.
Yogi.
--
yogy.bear                    |   smarter than the
(at) btinternet.com       |   average spammer







Subject: Re: new website - health and fitness
From: ANT... (ant@thisbit.cs.keele.ac.uk)


Allan wrote in message <7nk3oj$q1p$1@soap.pipex.net>...

>Forearm training helped the current tiddlywinks champion get to where
he
>is :)


Ah, but did he build those forearms in a Gym, or just by active perusal
of certain glossy magazines?

;^)

--
ANT...
         `There is no failure, except in no longer trying.'







Subject: Re: new website - health and fitness
From: ANT... (ant@thisbit.cs.keele.ac.uk)


Steve Gray wrote in message ...

>>Climbers do benefit from weight training as it can help them develop
sport
>>specific strength
...
>The best way to develop sport-specific strength is to engage in the
>sport. I'm not convinced that weight training is the best way to do
that
>for climbing...The key point is that the specificity required in
training for climbing
>is so high that weight training can't always simulate it well enough.

<snip>

I think the point here is that, yes weight training can help improve
pulling power (chin-ups I mean ;^), but won't do much for your finger
strength or technique. Finger strength I believe is the weak point in
the chain when it comes to climbing ability - it doesn't matter if you
can do 70 one-armed pull ups on a bar - if your fingers are not up to
strength you'll flounder as soon as you hit a hold that's not a huge
jug!

Finger strength and forearm endurance on small holds are IMHO *not*
things you can train in the Gym, and until your fingers are no longer
the weak link, the Gym has limited use in climbing training.

--
ANT...
         `There is no failure, except in no longer trying.'








Subject: Re: Sykes Farm Campsite, Buttermere
From: Sean Bechhofer (seanb@cs.man.ac.uk)

mellowmark@my-deja.com writes:

>Sykes Farm Campsite, Buttermere, Lake District.

>Has anybody stayed at this camp site, if so what are the facilities
>like and would you recommend it?

>Thanks!

>Mark.

We stayed there a couple of months ago (on a weekend when it p*ssed
down solidly from eight o'clock on Friday evening until eight o'clock
on Saturday at which point we sacked it and drove back to Manchester,
softies that we are :-). Facilities (toilets and showers) seemed ok,
but the site itself is a bit up and down.

My personal preference would be for Dalegarth, which is about a mile
down the road on the edge of Buttermere, is much prettier and has all
the facilities (including, I think, a drying room which could come in
handy :-). You *do* have to walk to the pub though.....

Cheers,

	Sean B

==========================================================================
| Sean Bechhofer                                                         |
| WWW: http://potato.cs.man.ac.uk/seanb                                  |
==========================================================================


 




Subject: Re: Car parking for Snowdon
From: Graham Benny (cnbs96@cc.sun.strath.ac.uk)

andrew Markham wrote:
> 
> Gareth Elderkin wrote in message ...
> >Anyone please know how congested it gets at Pen-y-pass this time
> >of year?  How early might you need to get there to be reasonably
> >sure of getting in?
> 
> Very busy this time of year, I've got there at 1000 am and failed to get in.
> Had to park down the road.
> 
Yup, me too!
The parking attendant reckoned that any later than 8.30 would have no
chance.
Still it is only an extra 20 minutes walk up from Pen y Gwryd and it's a
downhill plod at the end of the day. IIRC the car parking charge was
about 4 quid 3 years ago so I expect it wll be at least a fiver by now.

HTH
Graham
-- 
Anti-Spam e-mail address modification in operation!
Extra '.' included - leave you to work out which one to remove.




Subject: Re: Car parking for Snowdon
From: Matt Schofield (mattsc@sco.deletethisbit.com)

Gareth Elderkin wrote:
> 
> Anyone please know how congested it gets at Pen-y-pass this time
> of year?  How early might you need to get there to be reasonably
> sure of getting in?
> 

It's stinky on a weekend, and during the week you'll probably have to
get there early (before 1000) to get in. The truth is I've never up
early enouh to earn the privilege of paying the 4 quid to park there.
The BMC have park and ride info on
http://www.thebmc.co.uk/access/pubtran.html#snow. In the past I've
always dropped folks and rucksacs at Pen-y-Pass and then driven down to
Pen-y-Gwryd (towards Capel Curig) and ran/walk/hitched back to
Pen-y-Pass. It warms you up nicely for the slog up Crib Goch.

In Summer I'd personally start a walk like the horseshoe at about 3pm.
You might be able to park (cheap??), it's quieter on the hills, and
hopefully by the time you get to Snowdon the trains have stopped
running, and you get some lovely sunsets.

Terar

Matt Schofield
-- 
Return email address junked




Subject: Re: new website - health and fitness
From: Vicki Portman (vportman@uptails.removethisfreeserve.co.uk)


The Guv'nor wrote
>
>
>I do agree with the point that the heavier you are as a climber the worse
>you will be. This is not just a factor of weight but also one of power to
>weight ratio and in all these cases the lighter gent will always have the
>upper hand. Technically it is possible for a 16st man to have the muscular
>endurance and strength of a 9st man but when we reach the limits of mans
>abilities as a top climber would be - it becomes nigh on impossible. That's
>why the world record for say chin-ups is probably held by a guy under 11st.


Obviously, none of this applies to me.  So, I must be a fantastic climber no
matter how heavy I am.  QED.

Lighter gent??

Bluddy hell - I seem to have strayed into uk.rec.tailorsfittingroom.  'Scuse
me, fellas.

Vicki






Subject: Re: new website - health and fitness
From: David Harrigan (dajh101@yahoo.co.uk)

Oh, I don't know, it certainly feels like I'm training my fingers
and forearms when I'm holding a set of dumbbells or attempting
the 10th deadlift...aarrgh.

David.

ANT... <ant@ThiSbIt.cs.keele.ac.uk> wrote in message news:7nka79$gab$1@cfs2.kis.keele.ac.uk...
> 
> Steve Gray wrote in message ...
> 
> >>Climbers do benefit from weight training as it can help them develop
> sport
> >>specific strength
> ...
> >The best way to develop sport-specific strength is to engage in the
> >sport. I'm not convinced that weight training is the best way to do
> that
> >for 





Subject: Re: Warranty on boots
From: andrew Markham (andrew.markham@virgin.net)


Malcolm,

Out of curiosity who was the manufacturer of the boots, and where
you buy them   ?.

Andy








Subject: Re: new website - health and fitness
From: ANT... (ant@thisbit.cs.keele.ac.uk)


Vicki Portman wrote in message <7nkeht$cdn$3@news4.svr.pol.co.uk>...
...
>Obviously, none of this applies to me.  So, I must be a fantastic
climber no
>matter how heavy I am.  QED.


Nice spurious use of logic there - 'tell you're a philosopher!

--
ANT...
         `There is no failure, except in no longer trying.'







Subject: Re: new website - health and fitness
From: Zaf (zafar.hashmi@unilever.com)

In article <7nk3oj$q1p$1@soap.pipex.net>,
  "Allan" <allan@NOSPAM.legion.net> wrote:

> > On the other hand, a huge bicep is pretty damned useless if you have
> > lost your arm from the elbow down. So there you go - an example.
>
> Yep but obviously it will not remain a large muscle without the rest
> of the arm.

Especially considering the fact that the biceps attaches below the
elbow.

--
You're beginning to sound like Bill. Your not him.
So don't try to make statements like him. You can't back it up.
                                              Pete


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.




Subject: Re: new website - health and fitness
From: ANT... (ant@thisbit.cs.keele.ac.uk)


David Harrigan wrote in message <7nkfim$kl6$1@probity.mcc.ac.uk>...
>Oh, I don't know, it certainly feels like I'm training my fingers
>and forearms when I'm holding a set of dumbbells or attempting
>the 10th deadlift...aarrgh.


Ah yes - but you're just training them w.r.t. a full grip. Crimps using
the fingers up to the first joint, pinches relying on pressure between
fingers and thumb, and sloping holds which require the hand to be
(almost) flat are examples of common ways of using climbing holds, all
of which isolate different muscles in the forearm.

Just gripping a bar when using weights won't generate the required
specificity. Actually getting on the rock, or a climbing wall on the
other hand will isolate the required muscles automatically - and in an
enjoyable way*.

Cheers,

--
ANT...
         `There is no failure, except in no longer trying.'


*For a climber that is!






Subject: Re: new website - health and fitness
From: Zaf (zafar.hashmi@unilever.com)

In article <7nk3il$pu6$1@soap.pipex.net>,
  "Allan" <allan@NOSPAM.legion.net> wrote:


> I have spoken to a very good friend of mine with whom I used to do
> martial arts several years back. He said that climbing was a lot about
> finding yourself and connecting to chi (universal life force) because
> apparently
> some of the things that you guys do is quite remarkable - eg swinging
> yourself
> up with one finger. Now that's not normal strength but you have
already
> connected to
> Chi and you are using energy around you. (does this mnake sense or am
I
> talking crap?)

Are you sure he is talking about climbers and not jedi? :)

Zaf


--
You're beginning to sound like Bill. Your not him.
So don't try to make statements like him. You can't back it up.
                                              Pete


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.




Subject: Re: new website - health and fitness
From: ANT... (ant@thisbit.cs.keele.ac.uk)


Zaf wrote in message <7nklmk$bgc$1@nnrp1.deja.com>...

>Are you sure he is talking about climbers and not jedi? :)


Be cool though - Jedi climbing. Who needs holds?

I think though, in reality, fantastic climbers are in actual fact just
very strong, along with an impressive sense of balance and timing. The
chi thing does sound more impressive though - a myth us climbers perhaps
ought to propagate. ;^)

--
ANT...
         `There is no failure, except in no longer trying.'







Subject: Re: new website - health and fitness
From: Zaf (zafar.hashmi@unilever.com)

In article <ZA04xBAYpYn3Ew+B@wcompsys.demon.co.uk>,
  Steve Gray <Steve@wcompsys.XXXdemon.co.uk> wrote:

> The best way to develop sport-specific strength is to engage in the
> sport. I'm not convinced that weight training is the best way to do
that

No the best way to develop sport-specific SKILL is to engage in the
sport.
The best way to develop sport-specific strength is to provide a
progressive overload of resistance to the weak links in the movement
allowing your CNS to recruit more fibres to increase strength.

> for climbing, but the principles that have been worked out in weight
> training can be applied to climbing training on the rock (or
plastic), I
> think. See Goddard & Neumann's Performance Rock Climbing for further
> details (I should be on a commission for that) ;-)
>
> **
> The key point is that the specificity required in training for
climbing
> is so high that weight training can't always simulate it well enough.

Yes but the purpose of weight training is not to simulate climbing, but
to make you stronger.

> Question - how much carry-over do you get from training on pull-ups
with
> your palms towards your face ?

But the point is any carry-over will help in strength related
activities.
If every muscle groups strength increased by 1000 % would that make you
a better climber, all other things being equal?


> I should add the standard disclaimer here before somebody asks me for
my
> credentials as a sports scientist. I have none. I'm also a crap
climber.
>
> >I do agree with the point that the heavier you are as a climber the
worse
> >you will be.
>
> I'm about to contradict myself here...
>
> Tell that to John Dunne.
>
> >This is not just a factor of weight but also one of power to
> >weight ratio and in all these cases the lighter gent will always
have the
> >upper hand.
>
> In specific *strength* tests, I agree with you, but there are so many
> other important attributes of a good climber that, the more I get into
> climbing, the less important I think power-weight ratio is.
>
> There's no doubt that a certain level of strength is required but
often
> (and this applies to me), stronger people resort to thuggery when they
> would be better served by cunning.
>
> I've seen people so weak they can barely do a pull-up, who can climb
> ridiculously well compared to me.

Yes but if those people were stronger would they be better climbers.
Nobody is debating the fact that climbing requires skill.

> >Technically it is possible for a 16st man to have the muscular
> >endurance and strength of a 9st man but when we reach the limits of
mans
> >abilities as a top climber would be - it becomes nigh on impossible.
>
> How much *does* John Dunne weigh, anyhow ?

Probabally less than me.
I have enough problems traveling in a horizontal plane. :)

>
> >That's
> >why the world record for say chin-ups is probably held by a guy
under 11st.
>
> Agreed - but chin-ups isn't climbing.

Yes but chins were used as an example here.
One would have to find out what your weaknesses are and design a
program to overcome them.

Zaf

--
You're beginning to sound like Bill. Your not him.
So don't try to make statements like him. You can't back it up.
                                              Pete


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.




Subject: Re: new website - health and fitness
From: Sean (sean@deepmungesoup.freeuk.com)


Allan wrote in message ...
>
> I have spoken to a very good friend of mine with whom I used to do
> martial arts several years back. He said that climbing was a lot about
> finding yourself and connecting to chi (universal life force) because
> apparently
> some of the things that you guys do is quite remarkable - eg swinging
> yourself
> up with one finger. Now that's not normal strength but you have already
> connected to
> Chi and you are using energy around you. (does this mnake sense or am I
> talking crap?)

Both.  Yes you are, but yes it does ;o)
Physically, even the most outrageous climbers dont do anything that cant be
easily explained with simple physics.  But there are definite parallels
between the ideal states of mind for climbing - particularly soloing - and a
lot of martial arts practice.  The martial artists call it zanshin, or
mu-shin, (literally empty-mind) a kind of detachment, where you are aware of
everything going on, but not consciously thinking about it.

> I picked up 374 pounds last Friday at a body weight of about 200 pounds.
> Maybe not remarkable but it was the heaviest weight that I have picked up
in
> my life. Also just moved house recently and the washing machine and fridge
> where really light :)). Point is that weight training helps me in my every
> day life.

Congratulations.
When I've been out climbing, and been totally burnt off by all the twiglet
people (again),  it cheers me up that being a big lad does have its
compensations!

I may be a crap climber, but I'll beat the pants off Ben Moon in the
washing-machine carry! ;o)

Sean.






Subject: Re: Map reading courses - Lincolnshire
From: Trevor Dennis (trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk)

simon elliott said

>Whilst walking the Viking way we made a small detour to visit the highest
>point in Lincolnshire (About 70m IIRC)
>we could see for miles and miles from our lofty elevated position ;-)

I once had a conversation with one of the locals 
somewhere in America.

 "Is this your first visit to America?" he asked.

 "No", I replied, "we've been here several times before."

 He shrugged his shoulders and said "Florida I suppose".
 "What is it with you Brits and Florida? The highest point
 in the state is only 350 feet. Shit, we've got *trees*
 that big here."

-- 
Trevor Dennis                          trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk
G6HVK                                           tdennis3@ford.com
   I'm just clever enough to realize how little I really know




Subject: Re: Heather Terrace, Tryfan
From: Trevor Dennis (trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk)

Stuart Mann said

>If one is comfortable using technological aids, I'd suggest an altimeter is
>far more useful in this situation.

A bit expensive for a 'one trick' device.

-- 
Trevor Dennis                          trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk
G6HVK                                           tdennis3@ford.com
   I'm just clever enough to realize how little I really know




Subject: Re: Looking for a word
From: Rudy Lacchin (rula@attica.freeserve.co.uk)

"Total ascent"?
--

Michael Painter wrote in message
<_2Ug3.568$s5.48791@news.inreach.com>...
>Cross posted to uk.rec.walking.
>Matt Silberstein <matts2@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>news:3790dd99.16019528@nntp.ix.netcom.com...
>> I am looking for a word for a particular concept... how much
>> up and down I will have to do.






Subject: Re: new website - health and fitness
From: Dicky (corbettr@dircon.co.uk)


Allan <allan@NOSPAM.legion.net> wrote in message
news:7njoj6$i48$1@soap.pipex.net...

> and see what the experts say.

Definition of an expert///

An "ex" is a has been and a "spurt" is a drip under pressure.

Dear God in his infinite wisdom must protect us all from ex-sperts

Richard Corbett






Subject: Re: new website - health and fitness
From: Dicky (corbettr@dircon.co.uk)


Steve Gray <Steve@wcompsys.XXXdemon.co.uk> wrote in message This
> additional mass is quite likely to quickly become counterproductive if
> you're trying to get better at climbing, and could IMHO result in more
> injuries since you're not strengthening the stabilising muscles
> properly.**

Quite wrong my man, if I might be so bold,

Firstly the Fixator muscles (used to fix or stabilise the joints); Secondly
the Synergists (used to check unnecessary movement at the joints as well as
helping the prime movers) both benefit from free weight training which is
why this form of weight training exercise is the preferred method for all
serious sportsmen.

Althought it may well be that specificity within a chosen activity offers
the best return for time spent, it must also be recognised that many
sportsmen do not have continuous access to the activity practiced such that
total benefit would outweight any other form of muscular strength and
endurance training.

That being the case then free weights exercises  most certainly offer
advantages in "off activity" training sessions.
The only question at issue here should be the degree of "off activity"
training to which one should commit oneself when compared to the additional
benefits to be gained by performing the activity itself.

Richard Corbett - an Ion pumping man if ever there was one.







Subject: Re: new website - health and fitness
From: Dicky (corbettr@dircon.co.uk)

Press-up's ant, that's what you should do. Press-up's with your feet on a
chair and your fingers extended.

Then move on to the chin-up's my man and begin to howl like a whipped cur.

Richard Corbett


ANT... <ant@ThiSbIt.cs.keele.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:7nka79$gab$1@cfs2.kis.keele.ac.uk...
>
> Steve Gray wrote in message ...
>
> >>Climbers do benefit from weight training as it can help them develop
> sport
> >>specific strength
> ...
> >The best way to develop sport-specific strength is to engage in the
> >sport. I'm not convinced that weight training is the best way to do
> that
> >for climbing...The key point is that the specificity required in
> training for climbing
> >is so high that weight training can't always simulate it well enough.
>
> <snip>
>
> I think the point here is that, yes weight training can help improve
> pulling power (chin-ups I mean ;^), but won't do much for your finger
> strength or technique. Finger strength I believe is the weak point in
> the chain when it comes to climbing ability - it doesn't matter if you
> can do 70 one-armed pull ups on a bar - if your fingers are not up to
> strength you'll flounder as soon as you hit a hold that's not a huge
> jug!
>
> Finger strength and forearm endurance on small holds are IMHO *not*
> things you can train in the Gym, and until your fingers are no longer
> the weak link, the Gym has limited use in climbing training.
>
> --
> ANT...
>          `There is no failure, except in no longer trying.'
>
>
>
>






Subject: Re: new website - health and fitness
From: Vicki Portman (vportman@uptails.removethisfreeserve.co.uk)


Allan wrote

>I have spoken to a very good friend of mine with whom I used to do
>martial arts several years back. He said that climbing was a lot about
>finding yourself and connecting to chi (universal life force) because
>apparently
>some of the things that you guys do is quite remarkable - eg swinging
>yourself
>up with one finger. Now that's not normal strength but you have already
>connected to
>Chi and you are using energy around you. (does this mnake sense or am I
>talking crap?)


Hmm.  I'm inclining toward the latter, meself....

I'd rather be connected to the rock than some nebulous energy form,
Scotty...

Vicki






Subject: Re: new website - health and fitness
From: Dicky (corbettr@dircon.co.uk)

Right on Mr Zaf and more power to your elbows I say. Try increased weight on
the old bicep curls for starters.

Richard Corbett

Zaf <zafar.hashmi@unilever.com> wrote in message
news:7nkmvv$ccc$1@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <ZA04xBAYpYn3Ew+B@wcompsys.demon.co.uk>,
>   Steve Gray <Steve@wcompsys.XXXdemon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > The best way to develop sport-specific strength is to engage in the
> > sport. I'm not convinced that weight training is the best way to do
> that
>
> No the best way to develop sport-specific SKILL is to engage in the
> sport.
> The best way to develop sport-specific strength is to provide a
> progressive overload of resistance to the weak links in the movement
> allowing your CNS to recruit more fibres to increase strength.
>
> > for climbing, but the principles that have been worked out in weight
> > training can be applied to climbing training on the rock (or
> plastic), I
> > think. See Goddard & Neumann's Performance Rock Climbing for further
> > details (I should be on a commission for that) ;-)
> >
> > **
> > The key point is that the specificity required in training for
> climbing
> > is so high that weight training can't always simulate it well enough.
>
> Yes but the purpose of weight training is not to simulate climbing, but
> to make you stronger.
>
> > Question - how much carry-over do you get from training on pull-ups
> with
> > your palms towards your face ?
>
> But the point is any carry-over will help in strength related
> activities.
> If every muscle groups strength increased by 1000 % would that make you
> a better climber, all other things being equal?
>
>
> > I should add the standard disclaimer here before somebody asks me for
> my
> > credentials as a sports scientist. I have none. I'm also a crap
> climber.
> >
> > >I do agree with the point that the heavier you are as a climber the
> worse
> > >you will be.
> >
> > I'm about to contradict myself here...
> >
> > Tell that to John Dunne.
> >
> > >This is not just a factor of weight but also one of power to
> > >weight ratio and in all these cases the lighter gent will always
> have the
> > >upper hand.
> >
> > In specific *strength* tests, I agree with you, but there are so many
> > other important attributes of a good climber that, the more I get into
> > climbing, the less important I think power-weight ratio is.
> >
> > There's no doubt that a certain level of strength is required but
> often
> > (and this applies to me), stronger people resort to thuggery when they
> > would be better served by cunning.
> >
> > I've seen people so weak they can barely do a pull-up, who can climb
> > ridiculously well compared to me.
>
> Yes but if those people were stronger would they be better climbers.
> Nobody is debating the fact that climbing requires skill.
>
> > >Technically it is possible for a 16st man to have the muscular
> > >endurance and strength of a 9st man but when we reach the limits of
> mans
> > >abilities as a top climber would be - it becomes nigh on impossible.
> >
> > How much *does* John Dunne weigh, anyhow ?
>
> Probabally less than me.
> I have enough problems traveling in a horizontal plane. :)
>
> >
> > >That's
> > >why the world record for say chin-ups is probably held by a guy
> under 11st.
> >
> > Agreed - but chin-ups isn't climbing.
>
> Yes but chins were used as an example here.
> One would have to find out what your weaknesses are and design a
> program to overcome them.
>
> Zaf
>
> --
> You're beginning to sound like Bill. Your not him.
> So don't try to make statements like him. You can't back it up.
>                                               Pete
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Share what you know. Learn what you don't.






Subject: Re: New Website
From: Adrian Marsh Tupper (adrian.tupper@zetnet.co.uk)

The message <7ml2rg$hji$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>
  from  "John Carroll" <Johncarroll@queenspark42.freeserve.co.uk> 
contains these words: 

> Suppose it would help if I also posted the URL........
> WWW.jcphotography.freeserve.co.uk

Could be some useful material there?  ;-)

-- 
Adrian Tupper, Edinburgh
adrian.tupper@zetnet.co.uk
McClassify's Munro Bagging on the Web
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/adriantupper/mindex.htm





Subject: winter walking
From: Campbell McMillan (campbell.mcmillan@ukgateway.net)

i know its mid-summer but i am already thinking of the season approaching,
my problem is this.
i have been walking for the last three years from april-october and  this
year decided to do a winter walking course in the highlands.
now i need a club/group in the glasgow area to go out with to build up some
experience.

any suggestions or contacts would be greatly appreciated



campbell






Subject: Re: new website - health and fitness
From: Deano (deano@jd.co.uk)


Gavin Whittaker wrote in message <7nk8on$jip$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>...
>
>  A certainty?  The simple fact is that of all the people who have ever
>lived, between 20 and 50% of them are alive today, depending on who you
>believe.  That gives me pretty good odds of between 20% and 50% of being
>immortal.
>  Statistics don't lie, Deano.


Well, I'm pointing a gun at you now, so your odds have gone down to 1%
chance of being immortal.

Guns have no emotion, Gavin.

Deano








Subject: Which Tent- opinions???
From: Conor Cromie (conor@bombtrack.freeserve.co.uk)

I'm thinking of buying a tent in the not so distant future and at the minute
am having a toss up between the Terra nova Hyperspace and the Vango Oddessey
350. I was wondering if anyone had any opinions on either of these two tents
or recommend any other tent of a similar standard.
Post replys here or e-mail me direct on:

conor@bombtrack.freeserve.co.uk

Cheers,
Conor







Subject: Re: Heather Terrace, Tryfan
From: Stuart Mann (stuart.mann@virgin.net)

One trick??  Value is a personal judgement, but anyone interested in the
Vector should take a look at the following pages to see what it can do.

http://backcountry-equipment.com/accessrs/a-nav_measure/suunto_vector.html

Stuart

Trevor Dennis <trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:I6lnnMA9CNn3EwPg@tdennis.demon.co.uk...
> Stuart Mann said
>
> >If one is comfortable using technological aids, I'd suggest an altimeter
is
> >far more useful in this situation.
>
> A bit expensive for a 'one trick' device.
>
> --
> Trevor Dennis                          trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk
> G6HVK                                           tdennis3@ford.com
>    I'm just clever enough to realize how little I really know







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Sent:	30 July 1999 10:31
To:	kal1@lineone.net
Subject:	Deja.Com Daily Digest: uk.rec.walking 2/2

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Subject: Re: new website - health and fitness
From: Dicky (corbettr@dircon.co.uk)


Roger Chapman <r.chapman@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1999072521422068959@zetnet.co.uk...
> The message <379a415f@newsread3.dircon.co.uk>
>   from  "Dicky" <corbettr@dircon.co.uk> contains these words:

> If that  fails try visiting old peoples homes on a regular basis to see
how
> all too many of those who have managed to exceed their natural span
> live out their final years.

My dear Chapman or perhaps RC would be a better mode of address as it is my
intention to communicate with you using a somewhat old fashioned modus
operandi in order that I may practice that most British form of
interpersonal communication and one usually referred to in all good Bulldog
Drummond books as "the formal intimacy" that may exist between Englishmen of
simlar social and intellectual standing.

Apprapo your statement above, I would wish to inform you RC that there is no
natural time span as suggested in your aforementioned and wildly inaccurate
supposition.

Further to the above, needs must that I inform you also that there is,
biologically speaking, no reason whatsoever for presupposing that the old
Homo Sap cannot actually live for an indeterminate period of time.
The fact that we do not in practice appear to go much beyond 125 years is
only due to our lack of understanding of the mirid and complex nature of
micro biology and for no other reason than that sir.

I would point you towards an infallable information source on this absolutly
vital issue by suggesting you go "direct you feet", not so much "to the
sunny side of the street", but more towards your local book shop where, if
you take my most earnest recommendation, you would purchase a copy of "Time
of Our Lives" by one Thomas Kirkwood - Professor of Biological Gerontology
at the University of Manchester.

Within the magic pages of this "oh so worth while" insight into the world of
the aging gene, "Professor Tom" expounds both past and present understanding
on the dreaded subject of "non eternity" and explains to my own complete
satisfaction just what needs to be understood in order that medical science
will be in a position to intervene in such a way and at certain periods of
our lives to ensure a life span as yet undreamed of, and furthermore JC one
in which we would all remain in the most robust health for virtually the
whole of our lives.

My dear RC just imagine what that state of affairs, once arrived at so to
speak, would mean to the hill walker.
Complete Munroe bagging would be the status quo for all walkers. We could
plan our retirements in the full knowledge that the last 65 years would be
only slightly less energetic than the first.

What possibilities
What prospects on the far horizon stand awaiting the attention of both for
time and presence that would enable us all to attain even greater levels of
achievement and achieve dirty great dollops of the related self fulfullment.

Golly gee willikers JC, overexcitement has brought me to a point where I
believe I may be about to have one of my turns........
I will now retire, slip the old tablets down the old gullit and wait in
expectation of a full recovery.

Richard - longevity - Corbett









Subject: Pemprokeshire Coast Path
From: A.W.Soullie (soullie-helvoirt@hetnet.nl)

Wie kan mij informatie toesturen over het Pemprokeshire Coast Path.  Gaarne
per mail c.q. vraag mijn adres op.

Who can tell my, and send me infoamation about te Pemprokeshire Coast Path.

Thanks

Aloys






Subject: Re: Warranty on boots
From: Dave Cox (cox@cableinetnospam.co.uk)

I've looked in one of my law books and it clearly says "Goods must be fit
for their purpose provided that they are subject to normal use." So if you
used them to play footie in, you are in the wrong. All you have done, IMHO
is to walk in them. How do they know that your "foot or toenail" has damaged
them? They are not experts!! Let them send it for a test, lets see what
happens then!!  I know that this happened to me a number of years ago, I got
a pair of shoes for work and 3 months later they had worn through. I took
them back and to my utter amazement the asked if I had been walking in
them!! I put up a bit of a fight, they said they would have to send them off
for inspection, this they did, I got new shoes, so it does work. If it comes
back that it was your fault, dont buy the same boots again!!

The problem with this country is we do not complain when we get crap
service. I do, it amazing what you get (I also praise good service too)

BTW, you dont have to have a CAB local to you, you can phone any CAB you
want.

Please let us all know how you get on. It may encourage others to complain!

--

Coxie, the Scouse Manc
Remove nospam from my address to reply
ICQ 21559285
dacox@cableinet.nospamco.uk

Malcolm Haswell wrote in message ...
>I bought a pair of good quality walking boots about 10 months ago and
>they started leaking through the upper along the crease where the foot
>bends. They had a 12 month warranty so they were returned to the
>manufacturer for inspection.
>I have now been told that my feet or toenails have damaged the internal
>waterproof membrane and that, although they agree that there is external
>damage, this prevents them from being repaired so the manufacturer does
>not feel that they have to honour their warranty. I have a choice of an
>ex-gratia payment of about half of the value of the boots (unfortunately
>to buy the same brand) or if I wish to contest this I will have to pay
>about 30 for an independent test but the ex-gratia payment will be
>withdrawn.
>Has anyone else encountered these sorts of problems and, if so, how did
>they resolve them?
>My problem is that the boots had plenty of toe-room, I always trim my
>toenails and wear double socks so I wonder how I could have so easily
>damaged the membrane. Also I don't want another pair of the same brand.
>
>Thanks in advance
>
>PS we don't even have a Citizen's Advice Bureau in the area.
>--
>Malcolm Haswell






Subject: Re: new website - health and fitness
From: The Guvnor (theguvnor@dejanews.com)

Hi Vicki,

Please excuse my good upbringing. Didn't you know that all us bodybuilders
are a cultured and highly intelligent bunch of chaps? :)

Guv'nor

--
Visit the URB H'page - http://www.theministryoffitness.com/urb.htm
The home of uk.rec.bodybuilding


Oooh, they have the internet on computers now? - Homer J. Simpson
_______________________________________________


<SNIP>
|
|Lighter gent??
|
|Bluddy hell - I seem to have strayed into uk.rec.tailorsfittingroom.
'Scuse
|me, fellas.
|
|Vicki
|
|








Subject: Re: new website - health and fitness
From: The Guvnor (theguvnor@dejanews.com)

Hi Steve,

See ***

-- 
Visit the URB H'page - http://www.theministryoffitness.com/urb.htm
The home of uk.rec.bodybuilding


Oooh, they have the internet on computers now? - Homer J. Simpson
_______________________________________________


Steve Gray wrote in message ...
|The Guv'nor <theredbarron@hotmail.com> said...
|>
|>Steve Gray <Steve@wcompsys.XXXdemon.co.uk> wrote in message
|>news:xv3CKRAWFXn3EwJC@wcompsys.demon.co.uk...
|>> Allan <allan@NOSPAM.legion.net> said...
|>> >
|>> >It is scientifically proven that bodybuilding helps in ALL forms of
|>sport.
|>>
|>> Please back up this ridiculous assertion with some evidence.
|>
|>*** Giving you some evidence would or could take me ages as their is so much
|>of it about. I think the problem here is the word "bodybuilding". When Allan
|>said "BB" he simply meant training with weights.
|
|Agreed. Bodybuilding and training with weights aren't the seem thing in
|the Steve Gray dictionary. If that's not the case in English
|dictionaries, I retract the word "ridiculous".
|
|I take bodybuilding to mean building muscle primarily for the sake of
|either looking good or to achieve success in bodybuilding contests,
|which requires a high degree of muscle mass among other things. This
|additional mass is quite likely to quickly become counterproductive if
|you're trying to get better at climbing, and could IMHO result in more
|injuries since you're not strengthening the stabilising muscles
|properly.**


*** This is a valid point. But so is the point that if your weight training is specific to improving climbing skills then the weight training will prove beneficial.

|
|I have no scientific evidence to back this up (feel free to label me as
|a hypocrite), but a brief study at the physiques of top climbers would
|seem to back me up in general.
|

*** Except that I can guarantee you that the top professional climbers all have a much higher strength/Power to weight ratio than the average club climber. You are confusing strength with size or mass and this is certainly not the case with climbers.

|>It has been proven that training with weights in addition to your sport be
|>it Marathon, Rowing or Sprinting or any sport is beneficial. Obviously the
|>type of weights one does and the quantity will vary depending on ones sport.
|>It has been shown that the top marathon runners apart from having
|>exceptional endurance also possess (compared to the average club runner)
|>greater muscular endurance and strength which helps them in maintaining
|>their high output over the 26 miles. This is why some of the top male
|>marathon runners have quite well defined and muscular arms (relative to
|>other runners) as the arm action is important in running.
|
|That's an interesting point. Are you suggesting that their upper body
|muscularity directly helps their running, or is it not just the case
|that genetically gifted marathon runners are more likely to have this
|definition than their less gifted counterparts ?


*** There is no question that the arms help. In sprinting the guys train arms really hard, they do the same in marathon running just to a lesser extent. Some people are genetically gifted but the guys and gals at the top all work bloody hard with NO exceptions. Ed Moses will tell you that he was only an average 400M H runner in college but through hard work and dedication he became the best ever.

|
|>Climbers do benefit from weight training as it can help them develop sport
|>specific strength away from a rock face or climbing wall. Just because they
|>train with weights does not mean they will put on weight but they can
|>improve their muscular endurance and sport specific strength.
|
|The best way to develop sport-specific strength is to engage in the
|sport. I'm not convinced that weight training is the best way to do that
|for climbing, but the principles that have been worked out in weight
|training can be applied to climbing training on the rock (or plastic), I
|think. See Goddard & Neumann's Performance Rock Climbing for further
|details (I should be on a commission for that) ;-)

*** This is wrong. Say you are a gymnast and you are trying to achieve a perfect crucifix - but you cannot do it - as you lack strength - no amount of trying to get it will help. However if you build up your strength specifically in the required area by progressive weight training then this additional power will be carried over to your sport. This is the point. Relate the crucifix to an overhang in climbing - won't additional power to weight help you?

|
|**
|The key point is that the specificity required in training for climbing
|is so high that weight training can't always simulate it well enough.
|Question - how much carry-over do you get from training on pull-ups with
|your palms towards your face ?
|
|I should add the standard disclaimer here before somebody asks me for my
|credentials as a sports scientist. I have none. I'm also a crap climber.

*** It may not replicate it precisely but the performance of weight training sure will be of benefit to a climber.

|
|>I do agree with the point that the heavier you are as a climber the worse
|>you will be. 
|
|I'm about to contradict myself here...
|
|Tell that to John Dunne.
|
|>This is not just a factor of weight but also one of power to
|>weight ratio and in all these cases the lighter gent will always have the
|>upper hand. 
|
|In specific *strength* tests, I agree with you, but there are so many
|other important attributes of a good climber that, the more I get into
|climbing, the less important I think power-weight ratio is.


*** Take skill as a given, if you have two guys of equal skill and weight and size plus mental toughness and one has a far higher power to weight ratio and muscular endurance then he will always win.

|
|There's no doubt that a certain level of strength is required but often
|(and this applies to me), stronger people resort to thuggery when they
|would be better served by cunning.
|
|I've seen people so weak they can barely do a pull-up, who can climb
|ridiculously well compared to me.


*** I can't answer this as I am unaware of your skill levels.

|
|>Technically it is possible for a 16st man to have the muscular
|>endurance and strength of a 9st man but when we reach the limits of mans
|>abilities as a top climber would be - it becomes nigh on impossible. 
|
|How much *does* John Dunne weigh, anyhow ?
|
|>That's
|>why the world record for say chin-ups is probably held by a guy under 11st.
|
|Agreed - but chin-ups isn't climbing.


*** Let's rephrase this to the best climbers will be under 11st. 


Guv'nor

|
|-- 
|Steve Gray
|Remove XXX to email me.




Subject: Re: new website - health and fitness
From: The Guvnor (theguvnor@dejanews.com)

Hi,

First of all - I have to say that this is the most civilised cross posting
thread I've ever seen!

See ***

--
Visit the URB H'page - http://www.theministryoffitness.com/urb.htm
The home of uk.rec.bodybuilding


Oooh, they have the internet on computers now? - Homer J. Simpson
_______________________________________________
<SNIP>
|Physically, even the most outrageous climbers dont do anything that cant be
|easily explained with simple physics.  But there are definite parallels
|between the ideal states of mind for climbing - particularly soloing - and
a
|lot of martial arts practice.  The martial artists call it zanshin, or
|mu-shin, (literally empty-mind) a kind of detachment, where you are aware
of
|everything going on, but not consciously thinking about it.



*** I would contest that what Maurizio Zanolla (Manolo) does as a free
climber cannot easily be explained by the laws of simple physics. I have
seen him climbing up vertical buildings i.e. The Estense Palace in Ferrara.
This IMO defies all logic.


Guv'nor



<SNIP>
|
|








Subject: Re: Heather Terrace, Tryfan
From: Surfer! (nevis-view@nospam.demon.co.uk)

<
snip>
>
>Trevor Dennis wrote in message ...
<snip>
>>
>>Perhaps ironically, it's forests that test my navigation
>>skills. I hate the bloody things.
<snip>

Orienteering started in the Scandinavian forests, and forests are
popular with orienteers to this day exactly because the navigation is
demanding.

-- 
Surfer!




Subject: Re: Don't You Just Hate...
From: Trevor Dennis (trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk)

Alan Rose said

>I heard recently that the leader of Glencoe Mountain Rescue team had to
>be rescued after breaking his ankle whilst para-whatevering down from
>whichever hill he'd just climbed.  

Did he summon help with his mobile phone? ;)

-- 
Trevor Dennis                          trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk
G6HVK                                           tdennis3@ford.com
   I'm just clever enough to realize how little I really know




Subject: Wicklow Way Experience
From: Julia Wood (juandbri@dialstart.net)

Am going to Ireland - ferry to Rosslare and driving to Dublin and would like
to take some walks along the way - what would be your 'not to miss'
recommendations?  Any good campsites?

Cheers!






Subject: walking clubs in bristol area
From: christopher douglas (seedyrom@globalnet.co.uk)

can any one put me in touch with any clubs? in the Bristol. area.,I'm
interested in historic walks,wilderness walks and river/coast walks.I just
like walks.Also interested in tour/guided walks.

upabit@globalnet.co.uk

yours stridingly
Chris






Subject: Re: Cairnless Summits
From: Richard Webb (user@crux.u-net.com)

On Mon, 26 Jul 1999 23:49:45 +0100, Martin Richardson
<martinr@thequiff.demon.co.uk> wrote:


>For me to knock down?
>

No .. for you to dismantle with care, replacing all the stones in
their correct holes..  better still leave!  North Wales is beyond help
in the cairn area.  One more wont hurt

R Webb






Subject: Re: Car parking for Snowdon
From: Richard Webb (user@crux.u-net.com)

On Tue, 27 Jul 1999 14:21:08 +0100, Matt Schofield
<mattsc@sco.deletethisbit.com> wrote:

>Gareth Elderkin wrote:
>> 
>> Anyone please know how congested it gets at Pen-y-pass this time
>> of year?  How early might you need to get there to be reasonably
>> sure of getting in?
>> 

Use the park and ride.. Snowdon is a rare hill. You can do a linear
walk on it without hassle.  Go up one way, and down another if you
want.  

Nant Peris is a good place to park for this.  

If only we had a bus for Ogwen, The hills there are just made for long
days in one direction

Richard Webb




Subject: Re: Don't You Just Hate...
From: Richard Webb (user@crux.u-net.com)

On Mon, 26 Jul 1999 21:13:55 +0100, "Rob Nicholson"
<rob.nicholson@unforgettable.com> wrote:

Modern Winters...  Having to walk up and down  hills, no skis.

Richard Webb

PS
BTW, If you used a mobile on Snowdon.. you could get in to the
carriage and shout ' I am on top of Snowdon' and ' I am on a train'
in the same call. Multi-annoying !




Subject: Re: Slide film (was Re: Don't You Just Hate...)
From: Richard Webb (user@crux.u-net.com)

On 27 Jul 1999 06:59:51 GMT, "Charles Frederick Wildgoose"
<wildgoose@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:

>Martin Richardson wrote 
>
>[snip]
>
>> I took a load of slides (does anyone still use slide film these days?)
>
>[snip]
>
>I do - and enjoy it. I've got an old Pentax Super ME which is still doing
>an excellent job. I'm so used to it that I don't really have to think what
>I'm doing. I've been using Kodachrome 64 for years and despite trying
>others always come back to Kodachrome. The photography magazines always
>give Fuji Velvia high ratings but I prefer the colours of Kodachrome.

Me too.. Fuji however.. Slides are easily scanned also
All photos, save the Cheviot, on Sub3000 are from slides (yes I know
some are dark) 

R Webb
Culardoch and  Carn Liath now on http://www.crux.u-net.com 





Subject: Re: new website - health and fitness
From: Deano (deano@jd.co.uk)


Mike Blamires wrote in message
<7nigec$bl7$1@newsreader2.core.theplanet.net>...

> Considering Bodybuiding makes practically uselless large muscle and rock
>climbing is anaplegic
>(?) which makes muscles strong but doesn't build them big, i think


How can you come out with a statement like, "Bodybuilding makes practically
useless large muscle" ???? How many climbers do you know that can deadlift
over 300 pounds?

Deano






Subject: Re: new website - health and fitness
From: sj (sj@myhouse.com)

In article <7nl9ot$l94$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>, Deano <Deano@jd.co.uk>
writes
>
>Mike Blamires wrote in message
><7nigec$bl7$1@newsreader2.core.theplanet.net>...
>
>> Considering Bodybuiding makes practically uselless large muscle and rock
>>climbing is anaplegic
>>(?) which makes muscles strong but doesn't build them big, i think
>
>
>How can you come out with a statement like, "Bodybuilding makes practically
>useless large muscle" ???? How many climbers do you know that can deadlift
>over 300 pounds?
So you're saying that the ability to dead lift 300 pounds is a useful
skill?
I may only be young, but in my limited years, I have never, EVER had to
dead lift anything weighing 300 pounds.  
That would make it not useful, and hence useless.
Just a thought.
Si





Subject: Re: new website - health and fitness
From: Zafar Hashmi (ypp37@uk.uumail.com)



ANT... <ant@ThiSbIt.cs.keele.ac.uk> wrote in article
<7nkiff$sqv$1@cfs2.kis.keele.ac.uk>...
> 
> David Harrigan wrote in message <7nkfim$kl6$1@probity.mcc.ac.uk>...
> >Oh, I don't know, it certainly feels like I'm training my fingers
> >and forearms when I'm holding a set of dumbbells or attempting
> >the 10th deadlift...aarrgh.
> 
> 
> Ah yes - but you're just training them w.r.t. a full grip. Crimps using
> the fingers up to the first joint, pinches relying on pressure between
> fingers and thumb, and sloping holds which require the hand to be
> (almost) flat are examples of common ways of using climbing holds, all
> of which isolate different muscles in the forearm.
> 
> Just gripping a bar when using weights won't generate the required
> specificity. Actually getting on the rock, or a climbing wall on the
> other hand will isolate the required muscles automatically - and in an
> enjoyable way*.

Yes but just climbing won't overload the muscles, you will be simply
providing the same tension over and over.
My climbing knowledge is limited so this may be a crap example.
Let us say your pinch grip is extremely weak.
Whenever you try it you lose your grip because you are not strong enough.
Simply doing the pinch over and over won't make you stronger, because 0.5
seconds after you apply it you lose your grip.
The 0.5 second of tension won't be enough to create an adaptation and make
you stronger.
This would be going into a gym and try to bench press 300 lbs when you are
only capable of doing 100 lbs.
No matter how many times to try to lift the 300 lbs you won't be able to.

-- 
Zaf
 
You're beginning to sound like Bill. Your not him. So don't try to make
statements like him. You can't back it up.
                                                                Pete




Subject: Re: Mullardoch (was : Campsite recommendations near Cannich)
From: Jim Willsher (jim@willsher.sol.co.uk)

There's always another day. Fingers crossed for the weekend, though
the forecast looks bad again.......if only the weekend could have been
shifted back by two days!!!!


Jim


On Mon, 26 Jul 1999 22:48:20 +0100, "Graham Ingram"
<graham@terregles.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

>
>Jim Willsher wrote in message <379b7931.952319@news.scotland.net>...
>>FAO Graham Ingram, and others.
>
>
>{Another windy and soggy tale snipped}
>
>
>Jim
>Sorry to hear of your change of plan but at least you appear to have got
>some result from the trek North.
>At the time of your aborted boat trip Mark and I were heading up the A9 for
>Seana Bhraigh when we picked up the Radio Scotland 7 a.m. hillwalking
>forecast which indicated that the winds were staying high and the clear
>weather was slower in coming in so we made a sharp left at Dalwhinnie and
>headed for the West end of Glen Shiel for our fourth attempt on Beinn Fhada
>and A'Glas-beinn ( we never left the car park on the first three attempts
>due to storms and gale force winds!).   This time we made both summits
>albeit in driving rain and very strong wind. The conditions on the Fhada
>plateau were just awful with less than 10 mtr visibility and after some
>messing about with the compass the GPS had to come out for a spot position.
>Ten minutes later we made a quick circuit of the trig as it was too stormy
>to sit about ( probably the same time as you were on Tom or Toll). We did
>not attempt the direct route to A'Glas-beinn given the conditions so we
>retraced our steps to the path and then onto the second Munro over a very
>windy summit ridge. It is a pity we did not realise you were just four or
>five mountains away or we could have given you a wave as the visibility was
>so good ;-)
>Heres to the next (dry) day on the hills..... Next Saturday !
>Cheers
>Graham
>
>



Jim Willsher (jim@willsher.sol.co.uk)

Homepages at http://www.sol.co.uk/w/willsher




Subject: Re: new website - health and fitness
From: Deano (deano@jd.co.uk)


sj wrote in message ...

>I may only be young, but in my limited years, I have never, EVER had to
>dead lift anything weighing 300 pounds.
>That would make it not useful, and hence useless.
>Just a thought.


Have you ever had to climb a sheer rock face? Do you consider a strong back
an asset? What about maintaining muscle mass as you get old and fragile?
What about prevention of osteoporosis? What about the ability to lift a
heavy cooker when you are reorganising the kitchen? What about looking fit
and strong into your 40's, 50's, 60's or even 70's? What about bodybuilding
teaching you commitment, dedication, perseverance? What about the diet which
will slow down your aging mechanisms? What about applying strength training
to other sports? What about reconsidering your statement above? Would you
rather be fragile and under developed? Maybe you would, maybe frequenting a
different newsgroup would be applicable !?

Deano






Subject: Re: Warranty on boots
From: Nick Croome (newsagent@nospamcroome.clara.net)

On Mon, 26 Jul 1999 23:53:30 +0100, Malcolm Haswell
<malc@malc-haswell.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>I bought a pair of good quality walking boots about 10 months ago and
>they started leaking through the upper along the crease where the foot
>bends. They had a 12 month warranty so they were returned to the
>manufacturer for inspection. 
>
>snip

In December last year I bought a pair of Brasher Hillmaster GTX and
they cracked across the toes after the very first outing.  It's very
sad as they are extremely comfortable and still waterproof but it
won't be long before they have had it.

Took them back last week.  I'll post the response.
--
Nick  (No NoSpam to e-mail)




Subject: Deer Stalking Season
From: John Qudeen (jqudeen@erols.com)

My wife and I will be hill walking between Loch Lomond and Fort William
in mid-September. My understanding is that this falls in the middle of
the stalking season and that various estates/agencies have information
numbers to call about this. Any response to the following questions (or
anything that you think would be helpful) is appreciated:

How much of an issue is this going to be?
What exactly are the restrictions?
If so, how far in advance are these restrictions established?







Subject: Re: new website - health and fitness
From: Bill McBride (wmcbride@mail.newcastle.edu.au)

Although a huge number of posts have appeared I will chime in with personal
experience.  12 years ago. 4 broken transverse processes on L4 and L5,
dislocated hip/sprung pelvis.
I have gone through periods of no weight training and then weight training.
I did martial arts for 3 years after 2 years away from it after the
accident.  I had done 2 years earlier in life.  I started weight training
about 1.5 y into martial arts, my punch and kick speed went up enough for
all to notice.  I drive a rally car, weight training helps in being able to
turn the wheel lots (look at any rally footage).  Extra strength in the
torso helps maintain your body in a good position for controlling the car.
Strength also helps for a quick wheel change on the rear.  No jack required!

I got a little busy for a couple of years and gave up most activities with
the results that I was on a massage table 4 times a week and had to stretch
out under my desk at work for lunch time to be able to continue the days
work.

Back to weights, no more back problems. Deadlift, Squat and Bench = better
quality of life.  Improvement in looks and sports is a side effect.

Steps of soap box
--
Regards

Bill McBride

Deano <Deano@jd.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7nl9ot$l94$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> Mike Blamires wrote in message
> <7nigec$bl7$1@newsreader2.core.theplanet.net>...
>
> > Considering Bodybuiding makes practically uselless large muscle and rock
> >climbing is anaplegic
> >(?) which makes muscles strong but doesn't build them big, i think
>
>
> How can you come out with a statement like, "Bodybuilding makes
practically
> useless large muscle" ???? How many climbers do you know that can deadlift
> over 300 pounds?
>
> Deano
>
>






Subject: Re: new website - health and fitness
From: Richard Johnston (richjohn@globalnet.co.uk)


<snip>
>I drive a rally car, weight training helps in being able to
>turn the wheel lots (look at any rally footage).  Extra strength in the
>torso helps maintain your body in a good position for controlling the car.
>Strength also helps for a quick wheel change on the rear.  No jack
required!
>
<snip>

Regards

Bill McBride

---------
Bill,

I agree completely, Formula 1 drivers such as Michael Schumacher spend a
hell of a lot of time in the gym to increase their overall ability in the
car. I've never yet seen Schumacher have to resort to a rally rear wheel
change yet though :)

Rich Johnston






Subject: Re: Car parking for Snowdon
From: Gareth Elderkin (ge@ciao.demon.co.uk)

Many thanks everyone for your comments. Since it's likely to be 
a weekday with an 8 o'clock start, it looks like it might be OK. 
And I wouldn't have to be the one to do the extra up from P.Y.G. 
if necessary.

But I really like the idea of an afternoon start as well. And a 
linear walk courtesy of the park'n'ride. Now to make a group 
decision . . . .

Very helpful comments, thanks

Gareth Elderkin





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